I Want To Make A Deeper Study Of Socialism

[b]Examining the premise that Socialism does not work, and can not work, because of the flaws in human nature, such as greed and hunger for power.[/b]

This was written by an SW member, (with his permission), user name Rhodesianman, who has lived in a socialist country and who has experienced socialism first hand.

"I keep on about this on SW but its true Rhodesia now (zimbabwe) was self sufficient after it declared UDI .We tried to intergrate the black population slowly through education but the world wanted us to hand it over to the blacks YESTERDAY .In 1979 Ian Smith said enough is enough to many young lives had been lost black and white in the war to keep it free from communism .Britain chose to put Mr Mugabe in power and in 1980 the country was handed over .Backed by Russia mr mugabe held onto power and Rhodesia like its name sake became Zimbabwe ruins .Mugabe was a tyrant and ruled with a ruthless private army who killed anyone who tried to stand against him .Now 30 odd years on zimbabwe is bankrupt ,people are starving and dieing and they have no currency and are dealing in chinese yen and american dollars propped up by a small number of rich people .Until democracy is restored and I mean real democracy zimbabwe has no hope. All those poor black people were brainwashed into believing equality for everyone works and look at them now .Without the wealthy to supply industry and jobs there is nothing .I hate to admit but we need the rich as much as they need the labour to make the world go round .socialism is a nice dream but in reality it doesnt work ."

[b]This post invites ALL SW members who have lived inside Socialist countries to share their thoughts and experiences.[/b]

This includes Cubans, Venezuelans, and even present former Communist nations such as the USSR, simply because there are similar elements in that the governments in both models promises to care for all the needs of their people.

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Abstraction · 61-69, M

I agree with the assumptions about socialism. It is flawed.

But in the USA, the term socialism is tagged onto everything. Completely incorrectly.

Social democracies, however, where governments provide social safety nets for the poor and opportunities for them to progress - are NOT socialist countries. They are capitalist countries. In social democracies, people can become rich. People can own their own business, land, etc. The government isn't controlling everything, they provide basic services. Yes, taxes may be higher, but overall the evidence is that social democracies are far more successful than other forms of government. 9 of the top 10 countries on the Human Development Index are social democracies. The USA is now not even in the top 10 now, which is disappointing. The poor and even middle class are being left behind. The top 1% are scooping it up.

Social mobility is the measure of being able to begin in poverty and end up wealthy. This is the American dream - the great country that virtually created this! Do you know what countries this happens in today? Social democracies: Norway, Sweden, Denmark... Not so much in the USA.

Why am I talking about this? Because in the USA, Republicans have gone out of their way to call anything that isn't their policy, 'socialism'. It's [b]propaganda[/b], and I find on SW it's so entrenched that people just call me a liar or something and ignore the statistics. It's all there to see. Socialism is government control of the means of production. It's often accompanied by totalitarian governments, police states. China's economy only boomed when it allowed more personal wealth.

4meAndyou · F

@Abstraction I agree that the American definition of a socialist is not pure.

I believe we interpret socialism as Nanny States and bloated Nanny federal government which proposes wildly expensive social plans which will kill business, kill the base required for capitalism, and impoverish the nation because we will not longer have jobs.

ANY politician who proposes violating our Constitutional rights and wishes to tell us we may not eat meat or sugar or drive our vehicles to work is, in my opinion, a person who WANTS pure socialism in our country...because socialism is a pyramid scheme with a few extremely wealthy and powerful people at the top.

Abstraction · 61-69, M

@4meAndyou Yes, socialism is a pyramid scheme. In Albania I visited the most beautiful gardens in the country near a picturesque - but in the old days reserved for senior party officials, whilst people struggled. It was an ugly oppressive system where you couldn't trust your neighbour, couldn't say things in front of your children in case they said something at school. Prison, no trial.

I guess my point is that whenever sensible reforms are proposed that are working effectively in other countries they are shot down as socialism creeping in, with wild stories about how it doesn't work and crushes the economy. Yet the social democracies with these policies on the list above have strong economies, no-one is told what to eat, or is controlled by the government, etc.

EXAMPLE
The US health system is the most expensive in the world, yet inaccessible for so many when they need it (US health system is therefore rated low, I think 35th, even though the expertise and facilities are absolutely first rate.) The 'wildly expensive' health systems people talk about - are less expensive, more effective in delivering affordable health care to all, don't interfere with anyone's rights or cause the economy to stumble.

4meAndyou · F

@Abstraction We are already being told what to eat. New York has made laws that forbid the sale of large soft drinks, for example. And all you really need to do to understand our fear is to listen to (now) powerful young idiots like Alexandria Ocasio Cortez, who ways that the United States is a fascist country.

In the name of global warming prevention, AOC wants all beef to be eliminated. The other things she wants including the elimination of fossil fuels for transportation would cause 99% of our population to starve to death.

Our Constitutional rights are already being violated. Governor Northam of Virginia wants to confiscate guns. When the police said they would not participate in unconstitutional actions, it was proposed that Northam could summon the National Guard and that there would be road blocks.

Re: health care, our unions, (just as one example), have fought long and hard for the best health care in the nation as part of their benefits. Under the proposed Medicare for all, they would be forced to give up their champagne services and accept bad watered down beer services instead. A lot of people have such good health care they want to keep it. And yet people like Warren want to force them to give it up...instead of allowing them to keep their own healthcare and giving "Medicare for all" only to those who need it.

I we had even ONE socialist here with a brain and a reasonable plan that did not involve changing the entire social structure of our country, as Bernie Sanders proposes and his acolyte AOC shouts from the rooftops, we might not be so scared. But people like AOC terrify us. She's hugely uneducated, and she has a lot of power, and she won't be happy till we are little Cuba.

SW-User

Zimbabwe had one of the strongest and fastest growing economies in Africa until the country started implementing socialism and printing money like crazy. Hyperinflation led to the Zimbabwe dollar becoming worthless. That's when they started using foreign currency. Seizing white-owned farmland didn't help - it caused international sanctions to be placed on the country. No one wants to do business with a socialist economy. Mugabe will always be a revolutionary hero to many of us because he fought colonialism/western imperialism and he prevailed. His downfall was subscribing to the Marxism-Leninism model.

4meAndyou · F

@SW-User According to what Rhodesianman wrote, above, it was Mugabe's vicious private army and the mass murders performed by them that was the real problem, followed by the starvation and all the other evils associated with socialism.

But I agree that he definitely backed the wrong socio-governmental system.

SW-User

You can study socialism deeper if you want to, but it's really not that deep.

Basically, other people take your stuff and decide it's for them to distribute
You're rights only exist as part of the overall collective
You get branded evil if you don't go along, or even think, like them.

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SW-User

@4meAndyou Completely agree.
It is clearly an admittedly un-orchestrated, but deliberate attempt to change who we are.
It could wreck our country.

I sent you an IM... if you want to catch up.

4meAndyou · F

@SW-User Oh...sorry. My IM's only receive if I have added you as a friend.

SW-User

@4meAndyou Ok... I added you. Up to you.

greenmountaingal · 70-79, F

Please read my Featured story under my Profile. It"s not a political analysis. But it's a piece of the Cold War I lived through that was pretty cold for me.

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4meAndyou · F

@TheSirfurryanimalWales If anyone at all could have mercy on me here, and send me a link, I would certainly appreciate it.

TheSirfurryanimalWales · 61-69, M

@4meAndyou just sent it to you.PM.

4meAndyou · F

@TheSirfurryanimalWales Thank you. Astonishing, almost surreal.

Heartlander · 80-89, M

It's a 3 part lethal mixture ...

Socialism +
Totalitarianism +
Fake News

To the extreme, it's like North Korea is the utopia, and anyone that isn't happy there will be made use of as slaves at work camps, or just executed.

4meAndyou · F

@Heartlander Did you see where Mike Bloomberg is using a company in China to print Christmas cards to hand out to sick children and so on? One little girl received one of the cards and there was a desperate note inside telling her that people were being forced to make the cards, held as slave labor in slave camps.

Heartlander · 80-89, M

@4meAndyou By vilifying everyone that doesn't get on their bandwagon it's easier to punish them and selectively deprive them of all the wonderful benefits of socialism. Meanwhile the fake news industry snuggles up to the totalitarian leaders to help suppress the voices that don't jump on their bandwagon.

See what they are now trying to do Tulsi Gabbard for voting "Present". Democrat voices are already demand that she resign.

Don't count on much published criticism of Bloomberg over the Christmas cards. They'll simply upstage it with stories about Trump doing something much worse.

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