If science proved that God existed, would u (atheists) believe in Him ? [Spirituality & Religion]

@DanielChristensen: fair enough but there are people who use it as their sole source of information and this is what we are discussing here.

Demanding that one ancient book is everything and that we must shut out everything and conform to it is madness. I just feel my position is, we don't really know shit about anything at this point. We plot fixed points which is essentially mathematics and we have our charts of the known universe, which is basically the Virgo Supercluster and we argue the small understandings available to us. I just want us to consider that what we know isn't very much at all to work with. Could be this is all occurring in a petri dish, for all we know. :D🙏

@DanielChristensen: but you still come to a conclusion. We have a different methods of finding truth I don't agree with you but of course you're allowed Your perspective. my view the Bible offers more true than what science has yet to offer

@Zonuss: Two logical fallacies in one post, keep going, maybe you can break a record?

@Zonuss: it just sounds like your experiences turned you into a pompous snob lol

@VioletDreams: No. It means. I have seen what thousands of others have seen since the beginning of time.

We aren't evolved from monkeys. That's like saying you're your third cousin's son.

@Zonuss: you know any lol? Difference is that [b]I'm[/b] not saying they exist.

@TyphoidJerry: Yeah, people keep telling him that but he's kinda stuck on the idea.

Wildrover: Here are the answers to your questions. You may take them or leave them.

Who wrote the Bible? Men.
Right!! The Greek word being "theopneustos", meaning "God-breathed", inspired by God, due to the inspiration of God. Words not entrusted to just ANY men, but to Christian men of old, to write down under the direction and inspiration of the Holy Spirit. I understand you don't believe that, but I still wouldn't mock even someone you yourself said you [i]don't[/i] know or believe in. Thank God, no one has to know how to read Greek, Hebrew, or any other language, in order to know how to be saved. Scholars have done that for us. Under the direction of men, yes, you're going to find spelling errors, translation errors, what have you, as man is flawed by sin, however, Jesus is without sin, perfect, and flawless. Man has tried to destroy His Word, burn it, deny it, mock it, ridicule it, yet it has survived all the way down through the ages, because the papers may be destroyed, but God and His Word shall never pass away. So while we could dispute these things until we're blue in the face, let us not miss the main focus, which is how to get to heaven, because if we miss that important truth, we've missed everything. "For what shall it profit a man, if he gains the whole world, yet loses his own soul?" Mark 8:36
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Who told us God's will? People. Right! But not just ANY people. People who believe in Jesus as their Savior, and are lead by his Holy Spirit to know God's divine will.
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How many religions are there? Thousands.
Salvation is not found in ANY religion; but rather, in a person of Jesus Christ. God will not save anyone who is trying to be saved by works. He will only save those who are trusting to be saved by faith. Salvation is not doing your best. It is having Christ's best put to your account through receiving Him by faith. We are saved simply by admitting we are a sinner in God's sight, asking him to forgive us, and believing he did. “The Gospel” according to 1st Corinthians 15:1-4, is three things; namely, Jesus died on the cross for our sins, He was buried, and He bodily resurrected three days later. Christ is our sin payment.
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When has religion produced anything of any benefit? Maybe culture.. Maybe. * Never. Since religion cannot save us, it can NEVER benefit mankind.

If you have anymore questions, please feel free to pm me.

@GraceFromEP: So what about all those religions that came before Christianity? Are they non existent? Do their "Gods" not count? i mean REALLY ...Grace you can make some wonderful arguments but the whole Bible and whatnot is like Swiss cheese...so so many holes :-) BTW pretty impressive that you can quote like you do

@black4white: 😂 Thanks. I love the Swiss Cheese thing. 😂
Wellllll, although you may not believe this, actually Christianity is not a religion, per se. Hear me out on this, please. When people call themselves a Christian, that just means they are a follower of Christ. Adam and Eve were followers of Christ. He talked to them and fellowshiped with them in the garden, so with all due respect, Christianity started from the beginning of civilization.

Definitely, we have all types of religions going on. Do they count? Certainly for some, but for me, not in the overall theme of things. Here's why. Salvation is not found in religion(s), as they are man-made philosophies. Man has sin in his life, which separates him from God, therefore, there's no way he can access God. Let alone, [u]earn[/u] or work for his salvation. The key thing to take note on therefore, is that salvation is not found in religion or any type special rituals or feasts, but in the [i]person[/i] of Jesus. He said, "[b]I[/b] am the Way, THE Truth, and the Life. [b]No man[/b] can come to my Father, [b]but by Me."[/b] He's telling us something very important there. Exactly [b]how[/b] to get to heaven. By faith in Jesus Christ. It is not just mere believing, but a commitment to follow Christ. Even the devil "believes", and trembles, but he is against God and rebels against God, so his sin keeps him separated from God. That is his choice.

A perfect God did not hand down his precious Word, with holes/flaws in it. It is the interpretation of it by sinful man, that concludes there are contradictions in it. God didn't entrust the transcribing of his Word to just anyone. It was given to holy men of old, under the direction of the Holy Spirit, which is foolishness to those who do not believe, nor want to.

A non proven supreme being is the basis for that much touted word "faith", or as I call it "blind subservience"

@cuda68: What is your explanation of people being dead and bought back to life.

@Zonuss: for a limited time it is medically and scientifically possible to jumpstart a "dead" human body, albeit with risks of brain damage. If you are referring to Lazarus, reviving a body after days is medically impossible and if you believe it actually happened..........well, the Bible is the greatest fantasy genre book ever written.

@GraceFromEP: Tou never can really know God personally until you take the step of Faith and watch God demonstrate Love.

@Pfuzylogic: I have to go out for awhile, but would be interested in your experience, if you care to share. If you'd like privacy for that, feel free to pm me.

@Pfuzylogic: That is so beautifully stated. So true. Thank you for that.

@Pherick: I seriously doubt you have the guts to even sit through an experienceet alone watch from a distance at something that would totally scare the crap outta you. You are way off my friend. This world is not flat.

@Zonuss: I really wish I knew what was going on in your brain. I read your last post 5 or 6 times, I still have no idea what it means.

We are done here,but seriously, I think you need some help, maybe you should find a professional to talk to.

@Pherick: Yeah. Thats just too bad that you dont understand the complexities of this world. You seem to think that the world is flat. You only know what youve been taught. But you are so far from reality its actually a disgrace.

@Pherick: Rational is what you lack my friend. I understand that your inner turmoil has blinded you to the point where you actually believe that what you have been taught is what is actually real. But your mental blocks have stifled your spiritual growth along with other things. The truth is that the secret societies of the world has hidden so much things from you, if you did know what they do, you wouldn't be so lost.

@Zonuss: LOL oh wow, now we have crossed the line into "secret societies" ... Please provide me some proof of how lost I am. I mean you know, so you must have some proof of it right?

Just a quick question, do you believe the world is flat by any chance?

@Pherick: No.

@GraceFromEP: The monkey comment came from the original post from Zonuss we are all commenting on. I myself am not simply dismissing god to be contrary or out of ignorance. I've read my bible, I cannot quote verses but I understand the bible enough to be able to discuss it, my godfather is even a bishop (Bishop Oswald Swartz).
I have wanted to believe in god, a lot of my looking into the god debate was just me trying to convince myself that there must be a god (though I will admit I also was partly motivated by a thought that maybe getting into the church and getting a job as a priest would be a fairly cushy job). So I don't think I'm just opposed to god out of ignorance. My issue is on a personal level faith is not enough to satisfy my need for proof.

(I even read Kierkegaard just because I'd heard he was the philosopher who best laid out an argument why belief in god is not irrational)

@xCoinx:
There's nothing wrong with questioning God's existence. We're geared that way, but the question is, just where will that get you? And at what sacrifice?

What people do, is get so caught up In having to know all the answers before they will accept God, they completely miss the most important question of all, which is "Where will I spend eternity?", because the answer to that question, does determine where you'll spend eternity. That's a mighty dangerous position to place yourself in, if you insist on having all the answers first. If you miss that important question, you've missed everything. We'll have all the answers, when we get to heaven. Right now, all people need to know, is how to get there. It'd be a real tragedy to miss heaven because of our own stubbornness.

Let's say we assume that is the case, and we will assume there is an all powerful creator who created humanity with a special purpose.
With just that premise immediately I have two questions. And these are not my questions alone numerous theologians have been faced with and tried to provide an answer to these questions.
1) This creator would have to be by his very nature all powerful. Everything that exists would need to be the way it is because god created it to be that way. But then what is good? If we insist (and many of us do) that good is good and he created the world and gave us the commandments then they must be good right?
But no. Because then we are assuming god could only have created the world the way he did, we are assuming that god could not have created the world very differently. God could have created the world where to murder was good, he could have instructed humanity to" Kill thy neighbour." It would certainly have been within his power to create the world that way.
Assuming my argument is sound, and I think it is, I based it off the theologian William of Ockham's argument, then we cannot understand god by our senses or by observing gods creation. Right or Wrong, Good or Evil these things cannot pertain to the nature of God.

2) God is omniscient god knew even before the fall whether or not I would either will achieve salvation or not, God must hold all the cards, the question of my belief or my acts cannot make any difference because it is all preordained. For Instance, Judas Iscariot must have betrayed Christ to the Pharisees in the garden of Gethsemane because it had to happen that way and could not have worked out in any other way.

@GraceFromEP: Please dont...its kinda like explaining politics to a 1 year old that has ZERO intentions of wanting to know :-) thats how much i want to know about religion and all that other wish wash

I won't then. You said you wondered, so I answered. @black4white:

@GraceFromEP: Oh Grace.

@Subsumedpat: Sure they do. You just seen the responses here about evolution.

I understand, but you ask me questions, then discount them. There are many things here you are not seeing, but I thank you for the discussion and hope you have a great day. I respect your decision to follow what you believe to be right for you. Hugs ✌️☺@Pherick:

@GraceFromEP: Thank you for your gift of knowledge and insight my friend. It is greatly appreciated

@Zonuss: Thanks so much, Zonuss. I so appreciate what you do. I have a great respect for you.

@PotPrincess: Again. Talking about something you have no knowledge of. Very smart to assume you know what people have experienced when you have seen absolutely nothing substantial at all.

@Zonuss: Then enlighten us if you know so much. Prove me wrong. How about you show us all of the "Scientific" evidence you so boldly claim to have. I'm sure I speak for all of us when I say we'd love to see it.

@PotPrincess: Its about what I have seen
Not heard or read dear. You gotta open your mind more.

You have all of this history that proves Jesus walked the Earth. Its right there and now its all coming together. See how time works. ☺

@Zonuss: What's your proof? The only proof is the bible, written by people. People lie

@ForeverOnMyGuard: There are experiences in the supernatural that would go beyond Bibilical teachings, religion, or anything you can imagine.
I have seen people who have never believed in ghosts, go to where the supernatural lies. And then after having this (real) experience, they say this. I cannot explain what I just experienced or happened to me in there. But I do know right now, that we are (not) alone. And quote. ☺

show me a second earth
with all this one has to offer

@JustImagine: I just meant that currently with our level of technology Earth isn't too bad. However a few thousand years ago, no one would have thought the Earth was suited for us. We scratched, clawed, battled and rose to the top of the food chain, and even then the Earth still throws disease, drought, hurricanes, tornadoes, etc. at us.

One nasty flu virus and humans are gone and this Earth that is "100% suited to us" will happily continue on without us.

JustImagine: God couldn't have said it better, Himself! 👏☝ Man simply does not have the capacity be smarter or wiser, than God.

I agree. Those who have witnessed miracles...supernatural events...unexplained happenings can attest to things that defy nature. This has been going on for thousands of years. Nothing new under the sun.

@Zonuss: That is so very true and if witnessed personally it gives one a sense of wonder and a greater understanding as to how very real he actually is.

Spiritual beings experiencing human form.

@Echoing: Yep pretty much, and that re-incarnation happens because we are ALL "one" god experiencing itself in many ways.

Definitely an interesting way to think about the human condition.

@Pherick: .... re-incarnation.... huh.. does anyone think that God created countless..endless humans? I don't. We are recycled as many times as we need to be... till we get it right. ;-)

@Pherick: I honestly think the problem with religion and debating, is that man with his finite mind, attempts to figure out an all-wise, superior intelligent, sinless, infinite God. Can't happen. We are not to lean to our own understanding, and until one is born of the spirit, it will never understand the things of the spirit. They will be foolishness to him that hears.

There is more than enough proof out there. People just don't want to see it, because that would mean they are responsible for their actions. How anyone could think about the process of not just having an eye, but the amazing ability of all the intricate parts that help it [b]see[/b] yet not see an incredible Creator and masterful Designer behind that, is beyond me. One would have to be truly blind to not see that. But when that is mentioned, we just skip that part, because we'll never admit that is true, so we focus on something else right away. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one, but I like your questions. I have answers, but I won't force them on anyone. We can respect each other's beliefs, even if we haven't come to the same conclusion. Thanks for stating yours.

@Pherick: I meant to also say, while I mentioned religions, I was actually talking about salvation in the person of God, and not in religions.

@Pherick: I'm not surprised. I understand that. My point is, what makes people think they can, with their finite minds, figure out an infinite God? Now we're smarter and wiser than God? I don't think so.

Faith has a lot to do with life (experiences). ☺

@Pfuzylogic: God us a Superior Being being what we consider to be a deity.

Yes. Read my statement above. ☺

I get what you mean, but what I am saying is that it is not really related to history but personal experiences :p

Okay.

@MalteseFalconPunch: Of course it is. Intelligent design have often given seculars ample reason to believe in something more concrete.

@TheObservatory: I know a book about talking elephants who wear clothes and walk upright on two legs.

Yaaay. ☺

Yet he did see it, then believed. That's the point.

I hardly call asking a question and sharing his beliefs, as all of us do on here, being that vulgar name you spewed at him. Where was the respect in that? Seemed very hateful to me, and totally uncalled for. Otherwise, it would have been received well.

If you want people to take you seriously in this world maybe you shouldnt act like what you just said. Show some class for a change. Thats if you know what that is.☺

@Zonuss: Right on!!! 👏