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Why is atheism untenable? [Spirituality & Religion]

“Gradually, I realized that in the twenty years since I opted for philosophical atheism, a vast, systematic literature had emerged that not only cast deep doubt on, but also, from any reasonable perspective, effectively refuted my atheistic outlook. . . . Today, it seems to me, there is no good reason for an intelligent person to embrace the illusion of atheism or agnosticism, to make the same intellectual mistakes I made.
“As recently as twenty-five years ago, a reasonable person weighing the purely scientific evidence on the issue would likely have come down on the side of skepticism. That is no longer the case. Today the concrete data point strongly in the direction of the God hypothesis. It is the simplest and most obvious solution to the anthropic puzzle.”
(Patrick Glynn)
DocSavage · M
Nonsense. The only reason to cling to a god belief is the hope of an afterlife. When you accept the idea that a creator god doesn’t guarantee a heaven or Hell. You stop looking For a supernatural being as an explanation for the simple limitations of human knowledge.
@DocSavage lol ... blocked for an immature ego

This child has not been here long enough to make two passes of the feed ... yet he managed to get blocked

Sad
Oster1 · M
I’m reading it before I saw you and thought he really sounds familiar and would often argue with this same gentleman. As always, I laughed so hard at your reply. May God bless the young man. It is sad. 😊@questionWeaver
Zeuro · 26-30, F
And what exactly is your “evidence” for god?
Speedyman · 70-79, M
Well there is somewhat of a difference between the Almighty God and the magical entity that you atheist don’t appear to recognise. You see we don’t believe in magical entities like you do@newjaninev2
newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
@Speedyman so your god can’t violate the physical laws of the universe?

That’s what magic is - an apparent violation of the physical laws of the universe. If it can’t do that, then it can’t do miracles, which, being violations of the physical laws of the universe, equate to magic.

So, what exactly [i]does[/i] it do?
Speedyman · 70-79, M
God can do what he likes. After all he made the laws of the universe and sustains them by the word of his power. Of course God can do miracles because he can override the laws of the universe because he is not limited by them. A miracle is something which is not governed by the natural laws of the universe. You really need to broaden your thinking@newjaninev2
Allelse · 36-40, M
Well he got one thing right, it is simple, a simple solution, with no evidence whatsoever, for a simple mind. Anything else would be too complicated for you to understand.
newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
@hippyjoe1955 did I say he was a biologist - or are you just making a random observation?
Speedyman · 70-79, M
Yes but we now know panspermia is an impossibility. Hoyle knew life could not have formed on this planet by accident which is why hebadvocated such a preposterous alternative. @newjaninev2
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@Speedyman Very true. The math simply eliminated the spontaneous life on earth idea. Of course moving it off earth made no sense either since if life could not have formed where it is presently supported how did it arise elsewhere and how did it get here? The fact is life can not arise spontaneously anywhere. It is simply way too complex to happen by chance or accident and there is nothing compelling it to form in the natural realm. Chemical attractions and physical laws can not explain it nor even define it since dead cells exist that are physically identical to live cells. That little thing called life is missing in the dead cell and no one knows what it is.
badminton · 61-69, MVIP
In the U.S. people are free to believe as they wish in matters of religion. The first Amendment of the Bill of Rights states,

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

I myself do not believe in supernatural religion so that makes me an atheist. However, I do study the world's religions. I find elements of value, and some negative things, in all of them. One of my favorites is the beliefs of the Native North Americans tribes.
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hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@fairefoutre Says you who never graduated highschool. Go do some reading. Galileo was condemned by scientists not the church. Science denied almost every advancement we have made until proven otherwise. A few years ago a fellow treated ulcers with antibiotics. He was laughed at by his peers. Except his patients were healed while his peer's patients were not healed. Now his therapy is accepted world wide.
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badminton · 61-69, MVIP
This is the best short statement on atheism I've ever read.

[image deleted]
Speedyman · 70-79, M
Sharon · F
@Speedyman You're right for once. Your imaginary friend is a total waste of time and effort.
Speedyman · 70-79, M
Nice vocabulary but you said nothing gave no evidence of your reasoning!
Speedyman · 70-79, M
As you have produced none whatever that should satisfy you. Let’s face it, the evidence for God is all around you but you are too tunnel visioned by prejudice to look at it. Typical atheist. Outweighed by prejudice not evidence or intellect. Admit it: ‘Only fools say in their hearts there is no God’

@redredred
redredred · M
@Speedyman So do you believe in the witches and sorcerers discussed in the bible? Whats your opinion of every other religion but your own?
Speedyman · 70-79, M
We believe in a spiritual dimension. We believe the material is not all there is, which is of course quite obvious if you are open minded@redredred
To each his own. I’m not sure what “data” has come out in the past 25 years that he finds so compelling. I would need a personal revelation, but some people apparently require less.

So now that Mr. Glynn has found God, I assume it’s Jesus, and not one of the other countless gods people have believed in? It would be hilarious if he concluded that the “evidence” pointed to Allah or Vishnu or L. Ron Hubbard.
@hippyjoe1955 One man's opinion.

You still haven't explained the mechanism "God" used to create the universe. Science is about processes, not just saying "it happened" and leaving it at that. Even without the mechanism, you can't explain how "God" came up with the design. It's just goddidit STFU.
Speedyman · 70-79, M
Science is investigating the mechanisms God uses. Because you know the mechanism you don’t dispense with the agency @LeopoldBloom
newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
@hippyjoe1955 Despite my reluctance to offer simplistic YouTube videos, you might watch this one and tell me... are the cells alive, or dead?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfxCJji_RHo
newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
[quote]most obvious solution to the anthropic puzzle[/quote]

I assume you’re referring to the so-called anthropic principle.

Let’s discuss that. It will give you a chance to provide details of Glynn’s ‘concrete data while I highlight his sophistry
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@newjaninev2 When you learn some chemistry get back to me.
newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
@hippyjoe1955 So... nothing, huh?
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@newjaninev2 Not until you learn some chemistry. Talking to you about chemistry is teaching rhetoric to a chicken. Just not in your wheelhouse.
What"s the question? If questions are allowed, that is.
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
Paul was very advanced in his Jewishness before he became a Christian. I have talked to several Messianic Jews who say they were shocked when they first read Paul's writings at how completely Jewish he was and how completely Jewish his writings were. Having gone to a Messianic Jewish worship service they have no problem with anything Paul wrote in contrast to what the Torah says. For them it is one continuous account of God's Love and Providence for His people.
All God's children, made in his own image, are not treated equally by your religion. If I am to accept that God always was and always will be, no beginning no ending, not created by something greater than himself, then I can accept that the Universe always was, will be, without end and everything in it always was and will be just the way it is.
Nanori · F
Why is religion untenable?
Speedyman · 70-79, M
Yes and the universe is a product of the creator. Just like my Carisa product of its designer. I wish you would use some common sense instead of all this nonsense you talk@newjaninev2
newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
@Speedyman So your care was designed by an intelligence and therefore [i]everything[/i] is designed by an intelligence?

That’s your position, is it? You’re quite happy basing your argument on a glaring [i]non sequitur[/i], are you?

If I needed to resort to such foolishness I’d cringe with embarrassment... but apparently you’re choosing not to see the problem.
Speedyman · 70-79, M
Of course the universe was designed by intelligence because it is a rational universe which can be explored by silence that is logical to anyone with logic and common sense which you seem to be highly lacking in@newjaninev2
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@Speedyman It's the God botherers who can't shut up. I've never heard of atheists pounding on the doors of Sunday schools, demanding equal time the way you people do in public schools.
Speedyman · 70-79, M
So Richard Dawkins hosting a series of programmes on prime time TV and writing books advocating atheism is keeping quiet? I could also mention people like Sam Harris, Christopher Hitchens? They just shut up? @LeopoldBloom
newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
@Speedyman [quote]don’t keep it to themselves[/quote]

What is it that they should keep to themselves?
smileylovesgaming · 31-35, F
atheism people are not sheep jumping over the moon
Speedyman · 70-79, M
No they just jump through a hoop of compliance@smileylovesgaming
Carazaa · F
The English royalty, Queen Elizabeth II have genealogy records to Noah! And some people believe there was no Noah! What a joke!
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@Carazaa While I don't know about British royalty I do know that genealogical records are very common in some parts of the world. I was in a church where the pastor was of Lebanese decent. One day a stranger walked in and in a few moments we found out that he was from Tunisia. When he learned that the pastor's ancestors came from Lebanon he said that his family had left Lebanon around 600 AD. The pastor was intrigued and asked the Tunisian fellow if he had family records. It turned out they both did and comparing notes they discovered that in 625 AD there had been a marriage between the two families.
Carazaa · F
@hippyjoe1955 yes I believe it! Many families keep very good handwritten records! Mine goes back to Vikings on my grandmas side and Napoleon on my other grandmas! My grandma really boasted that ha ha!
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@Carazaa Dear Wife can trace her lineage back to William the Conqueror. My side only has records back to the 1700s. Although the families were in their areas likely for thousands of years.
Zonuss · 41-45, M
It's an ideology. Nothing more.
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Speedyman · 70-79, M
You can look him up@SW-User
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Speedyman · 70-79, M
If you can tell me why out of your vast knowledge? @SW-User
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
Fred Hoyle once opined that if he weren't an atheist he would think the universe was designed because of the fine tuning required. He went on to say it is almost like it was designed.
Speedyman · 70-79, M
Get some logic, chum! @LeopoldBloom
@Speedyman It's OK dude. You and your friend can enjoy each other.
Speedyman · 70-79, M
Well he does talk some sense which is more than you do@LeopoldBloom
As a former atheist myself, I have reached much of the same conclusions.

The one question I have been mulling over for the atheist I encounter is "If God is such a powerful being that He can create every subatomic particle in a near infinite universe, why would He be bound by the same scientific laws He set into motion?"

Or, "How can man possibly believe that God could be bound by their standards and beliefs?"

It's like an ant trying to dictate the laws of physics to Stephen Hawking.
God made woman subservient to man. Any woman who is not subservient is violating Gods purpose and when she dies will she spend eternity in hell because of the seriousness of her sin ? She didn't choose to be a woman.
Speedyman · 70-79, M
And you obviously do not know what you are talking about when you come to talk about Paul. Why don’t you go and actually read what he says rather than taking a few verses out of context and following the party line?@fairefoutre
@fairefoutre Paul managed to ruin Christianity just as it was getting going. I'll agree that he was a good salesman for the Christian brand. By divorcing Christianity from its Jewish roots, he made it far too easy for people to become Christians, witness our friend Speedy here. If he can be one, then anyone can. It's basically meaningless. For example, you have a large number of Christians in the U.S. practicing a "religion" that Jesus would find incomprehensible, focused as it is on the glorification of commerce, hatred of foreigners, and the worship of leaders whose main accomplishment is braggadocio.
Speedyman · 70-79, M
This is so crazy it is unbelievable. Paul was a Jew and he actually showed how Christianity was derived from its Jewish roots. It was the,unreal scholars of the 19thcenturyin their ivory towers who divorced Christianity from its Jewish roots and people like you who gullibly believe them. Christianity is Jewish through and through as Paul showed -e fulfilment of the promises given to Abraham. You need to get some proper perspective on this as you have been totally mislead . @LeopoldBloom
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@Speedyman whether or not I have evidence against ignorance has got nothing to do with the fact you as good as called someone who disagrees with you stupid. Now I think it's great when atheists do that, so obviously it's bad when Christians (or people in the Christian camp) do as well
Speedyman · 70-79, M
Well with what I said true?@ImperialAerosolKidFromEP
@Speedyman not the point
fun4us2b · M
What about Des Cartes meditation 3....?

What about that feeling I get when I look to the west?
Speedyman · 70-79, M
Not in maths @fun4us2b
fun4us2b · M
@Speedyman to me, meditation 3 is the most concise reasoning for the existence of God that I’ve read....
Speedyman · 70-79, M
Yes agreed - a philosophers argument. My argument is from the creation. @fun4us2b
RopinTexan · 31-35, M
What intellectual mistakes did you make? I'd love to hear more about your conversion.
Speedyman · 70-79, M
My mistakes were theological rather than intellectual@RopinTexan
Carazaa · F
I agree Speedyman!
Don't quite see the point in disturbing atheist sensibilities
@Speedyman Not that. The constant arguing and name calling. This has been going on for ages and nothing is ever resolved.
Speedyman · 70-79, M
Yes I take your point. I will head off baseless arguments from now on@LadyGrace
@Speedyman 🤗

 
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