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wilderflower · F
@Bushranger Thank you!
wilderflower · F
@LeopoldBloom That means I can go on a murdering rampage killing anybody I want in the most gruesome manner and as the police are closing in I’m about to take my life [i]but[/i] I can still get into heaven just by repenting. Is that correct?
wilderflower · F
@GodSpeed63 You conveniently left out the first part of her response. You know the first part of the contradictory message. Do you read and follow every word of the bible?
newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
Using the same ‘logic' and type of ‘evidence' employed by Gary Habermas for the historicity of Jesus, we can make a solid case for the historicity of the Wizard of Oz (by assuming the inerrancy of The Wizard of Oz, of course):
Fact 1: Independent Testimony: The oldest account comes from Frank with subsequent expansion and collaborative evidence supplied by Noel, Florence, Edgar, and John. For instance, Frank simply describes the twister hitting the Mid-West, but from the other four we can deduce that it specifically hit Kansas. We can verify that tornadoes hit Kansas and have done so for many centuries. This knowledge of local geography and climate further supports that all five authors were eye witnesses intimately familiar with the course of events.
Fact 2: The Wicked Witch of the East Actually Died: This has been confirmed by five chiropractors, who all agree that a house falling from the sky at great heights could kill her. The fifth chiropractor, unlike the previous four, did not state unequivocally that the Wicked Witch would necessarily die, but is sure that the most likely scenario would result in her death.
Fact 3: The Radical Change in the Munchkin Behaviour: The Munchkins were terrified of the Wicked Witch of the East. However, after the house fell on the Wicked Witch, the Munchkins were happy, singing and proclaiming that she did in fact die. They would not do any of this unless the Wicked Witch of the East had actually died, otherwise she would hurt them. No other scenario can plausibly explain a paradigm shift of this magnitude.
Fact 4: The Ruby Slippers: Dorothy possessed the Ruby Slippers, which would be impossible unless the Wicked Witch of the East was actually dead. Dorothy having the Ruby Slippers has been independently verified by both the Witch of the North and the Wicked Witch of the West. These two are constantly at odds with each other, and thus they would not agree on Dorothy having the Slippers if it wasn't true.
Fact 5: The Yellow Brick Road: If the Yellow Brick Road did not exist, there would be no way for Dorothy to get to the Emerald City from Munchkin Land. Since we know that she did make it to the Emerald City, the Yellow Brick Road must logically exist. Furthermore, the existence of the Yellow Brick Road has been verified through the independent eye witness testimonies of the Scarecrow, the Tin Man, and the Lion who also traveled it.
Bonus: The Munchkin Land Factor: If the Wicked Witch of the East was not dead, the flying monkeys could easily have verified that by coming in to investigate it at any time. Since they didn't and believed she was in fact dead, there is no reason to believe that they would have lied or been mistaken about it.
Fact 1: Independent Testimony: The oldest account comes from Frank with subsequent expansion and collaborative evidence supplied by Noel, Florence, Edgar, and John. For instance, Frank simply describes the twister hitting the Mid-West, but from the other four we can deduce that it specifically hit Kansas. We can verify that tornadoes hit Kansas and have done so for many centuries. This knowledge of local geography and climate further supports that all five authors were eye witnesses intimately familiar with the course of events.
Fact 2: The Wicked Witch of the East Actually Died: This has been confirmed by five chiropractors, who all agree that a house falling from the sky at great heights could kill her. The fifth chiropractor, unlike the previous four, did not state unequivocally that the Wicked Witch would necessarily die, but is sure that the most likely scenario would result in her death.
Fact 3: The Radical Change in the Munchkin Behaviour: The Munchkins were terrified of the Wicked Witch of the East. However, after the house fell on the Wicked Witch, the Munchkins were happy, singing and proclaiming that she did in fact die. They would not do any of this unless the Wicked Witch of the East had actually died, otherwise she would hurt them. No other scenario can plausibly explain a paradigm shift of this magnitude.
Fact 4: The Ruby Slippers: Dorothy possessed the Ruby Slippers, which would be impossible unless the Wicked Witch of the East was actually dead. Dorothy having the Ruby Slippers has been independently verified by both the Witch of the North and the Wicked Witch of the West. These two are constantly at odds with each other, and thus they would not agree on Dorothy having the Slippers if it wasn't true.
Fact 5: The Yellow Brick Road: If the Yellow Brick Road did not exist, there would be no way for Dorothy to get to the Emerald City from Munchkin Land. Since we know that she did make it to the Emerald City, the Yellow Brick Road must logically exist. Furthermore, the existence of the Yellow Brick Road has been verified through the independent eye witness testimonies of the Scarecrow, the Tin Man, and the Lion who also traveled it.
Bonus: The Munchkin Land Factor: If the Wicked Witch of the East was not dead, the flying monkeys could easily have verified that by coming in to investigate it at any time. Since they didn't and believed she was in fact dead, there is no reason to believe that they would have lied or been mistaken about it.
wilderflower · F
@newjaninev2 This is a work of art! Excellent!
newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
Please note that Gary Habermas was Professor of Apologetics and Philosophy and chairman of the department of philosophy and theology at Liberty University in Lynchburg, Virginia.
He was not at the University of California, and never held a position there. His Masters (1973) is from the University of Detroit, and his doctorate (1976) is from Michigan State University.
He has never won a Nobel Prize.
He was not at the University of California, and never held a position there. His Masters (1973) is from the University of Detroit, and his doctorate (1976) is from Michigan State University.
He has never won a Nobel Prize.
Entwistle · 56-60, M
Entwistle · 56-60, M
@Bushranger Habernas's conclusions are based on the assumption of the absolute reliability of the gospels and nothing more.
However the gospels are not historical textbooks. The Bible has been revealed many times to be not trustworthy and includes deliberate myths,historical fiction,forgery and interpolation.
There are several instances where Habernas is incorrect and his points mean nothing. There are many stories in the life of Jesus that are older myths.
However the gospels are not historical textbooks. The Bible has been revealed many times to be not trustworthy and includes deliberate myths,historical fiction,forgery and interpolation.
There are several instances where Habernas is incorrect and his points mean nothing. There are many stories in the life of Jesus that are older myths.
newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
@Carazaa [quote]Francis Collins who is the top genetic scientist in the world[/quote]
You [i]have[/i] to be joking!
Collins was an active member of [i]teams[/i] involved in gene research in the 70s and 80s. Since then he has functioned as an administrator, has not published for many, many years, and is seldom cited, because his original work is now so dated as to be irrelevant.
If you [i]must[/i] make appeals to ‘authority’ within genetics, I suggest you try Jennifer Doudna
You [i]have[/i] to be joking!
Collins was an active member of [i]teams[/i] involved in gene research in the 70s and 80s. Since then he has functioned as an administrator, has not published for many, many years, and is seldom cited, because his original work is now so dated as to be irrelevant.
If you [i]must[/i] make appeals to ‘authority’ within genetics, I suggest you try Jennifer Doudna
newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
Carazaa · F
@newjaninev2
It is overwhelming! Thousands of historical papyrus and artifacts from the period, and No work from that long ago have as much evidence! Holmer nor other writers don’t have as much historical writings as the Bible! And they all match up! The haters of the Jews who wrote about Jesus and hated the all the Christians who followed Jesus wrote much for us to see that it testified that the Bible is true to fact!
Thallus-
He wrote about all the talk about the happened during the king of the Jews death darkness and thunder and earthquake and he explains it away as bad weather!
Cornelius Tacitus-
Wrote how hated the followers of Christ were and their superstitions
Syrian Philosopher Mara-Bar-Serapion
Those Christians carried on their message about their king after the Jews killed him
Phlagon-
Wrote how everything Jesus predicted came true. And people saw him walk around with pierced hands after he rose.
Pliny the younger
Wrote how the Christians refused to falsify anything because they were so honest! And followed a moral code that they had after their king
Josephus- wrote a lot about the Christians how they carried on the message of Jesus after they saw him do all the miracles. And he wrote about the excise of the Jews from israel in 70 AD as Jesus said would happen! And how Jesus predicted the destruction of the temple!
It is overwhelming! Thousands of historical papyrus and artifacts from the period, and No work from that long ago have as much evidence! Holmer nor other writers don’t have as much historical writings as the Bible! And they all match up! The haters of the Jews who wrote about Jesus and hated the all the Christians who followed Jesus wrote much for us to see that it testified that the Bible is true to fact!
Thallus-
He wrote about all the talk about the happened during the king of the Jews death darkness and thunder and earthquake and he explains it away as bad weather!
Cornelius Tacitus-
Wrote how hated the followers of Christ were and their superstitions
Syrian Philosopher Mara-Bar-Serapion
Those Christians carried on their message about their king after the Jews killed him
Phlagon-
Wrote how everything Jesus predicted came true. And people saw him walk around with pierced hands after he rose.
Pliny the younger
Wrote how the Christians refused to falsify anything because they were so honest! And followed a moral code that they had after their king
Josephus- wrote a lot about the Christians how they carried on the message of Jesus after they saw him do all the miracles. And he wrote about the excise of the Jews from israel in 70 AD as Jesus said would happen! And how Jesus predicted the destruction of the temple!
JBird · F
So a random guy from a university tell that Jesus has risen, does it mean it's true? I can get different videos from so called scholars telling that aliens exist too. Hell, I had a professor from my university who made a study that wearing jeans would decrease fertility in women. Lol. It's not unusual to find such crackpots. A degree won't guarantee a person's intelligence or credibility of his studies. Quoting @emosaur, if his study is actually true, it would have been a major breakthrough and people all over would accept it as a fact.
Kwek00 · 41-45, M
@Carazaa
[quote]It's perfectly okay for people to win prices, make great papers and advance physics, chemistry, math, ... what ever. And still believe in myths and legends. These two are not mutually exclusive.[/quote]
But at the end of the day, people that believe in myths are only "hardcore science proffessors" in their field. It has nothing to do with their other believes what so ever. You can be really smart in physics and yet be totally ignorant in other fields.
But people that incorperate origin myths and take the bible literally will have a hard time getting a noble price in the study of mens' origins in the field of biology. Because their myths will eventually hold them back.
Annyone that accepts presupositions without evidence that influence their field of study... is fucked once their believes don't hold up to the actual evidence. Because they are, by defenition, inherently biased towards what they should be researching.
[quote]It's perfectly okay for people to win prices, make great papers and advance physics, chemistry, math, ... what ever. And still believe in myths and legends. These two are not mutually exclusive.[/quote]
But at the end of the day, people that believe in myths are only "hardcore science proffessors" in their field. It has nothing to do with their other believes what so ever. You can be really smart in physics and yet be totally ignorant in other fields.
But people that incorperate origin myths and take the bible literally will have a hard time getting a noble price in the study of mens' origins in the field of biology. Because their myths will eventually hold them back.
Annyone that accepts presupositions without evidence that influence their field of study... is fucked once their believes don't hold up to the actual evidence. Because they are, by defenition, inherently biased towards what they should be researching.
Majorlatency · M
Carazaa · F
University of California has more Nobel prize winners in science than any other
University!
University!
LeopoldBloom · M
@Carazaa We're still left with the fact that the only "evidence" for the resurrection is the Bible. And even that wasn't written down until 30 to 80 years later. There are [b]no[/b] contemporary accounts, and no accounts at all by non-believers for over a century.
Carazaa · F
@LeopoldBloom
Not true! I have reference historical secular records and enemies of Christianity to prove without a shadow of doubt the legitimacy of the Bible and being thousand times more historically accurate than any other record that old and more legitimate than most other authors!
Not true! I have reference historical secular records and enemies of Christianity to prove without a shadow of doubt the legitimacy of the Bible and being thousand times more historically accurate than any other record that old and more legitimate than most other authors!
GodSpeed63 · 61-69, M
Carazaa · F
@GodSpeed63 Amen! What a brave person going for a PHD in proof of the resurrection !
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