Do you think if your first exposure to god was reading the old testament that you would love and praise god? [Spirituality & Religion]

@Carazaa Why not pray for them to have enough food to eat?

Why not do something about it yourself? Instead of drooling on the Internet@Entwistle

@Entwistle
Like I said I pray for everyones [b]salvation [/b] and I send money and food and try to volunteer the best I can! I was with the Red Cross a few years ago!

@GodSpeed63 I see I’m getting under your skin. Do you read and follow every word of the bible?

@wilderflower [quote]I see I’m getting under your skin.[/quote]

😆 Dream on.

@GodSpeed63 I heard something about you and I think it might be true. Do you read and follow every word of the bible?

@Pikachu That’s why I will send you that video or article!

@GodSpeed63 Speaking of thinking and telling perhaps you can tell me do you read and follow every word of the bible?

Same reason I follow instructions on a maker’s manual. @wilderflower

@JBird [quote]I highly believe it's essential at least for third world countries.[/quote]
I tend to agree, certainly as an option.

We are talking about the west we are not talking about Muslim countries@JBird

Abortion is a very prevalent use of contraception in the west@JBird

Just a statement of fact. No tantrum at all. Why the self-deception? @canusernamebemyusername

@Speedyman [i]You are of course totally wrong . Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! [/i] - what an awe inspiring retort.

The laws in the Bible were authored by God, a being who is supposedly in the possession of omniscience. He authored the laws of slavery knowing full well that for thousands of years afterwards they would be the cause of great pain and woe for the unfortunate souls unlucky enough to be forced into such bondage.

And instead of rectifying it at the time of Exodus and proclaiming "no, you shan't own people as property for this is immoral" - he instead decides that Christians will simply correct him a a few thousand years down the line; rebel against his laws on slavery as they come to the realization that God was wrong, and free the slaves that they themselves had bought into bondage in the first place using the words of God as their justification! This is farcical.

Here's an honest thought experiment for you though, Speedy, which I think will cut through this diatribe and get to the heart of the issue; let's use John Rawls 'Veil of Ignorance'. Behind this veil, you know nothing of your place on earth, nothing of your position in society, your sex, race, nationality and so on. You are able to redesign society how you see fit, to redefine fairness and equality, to reconstruct the moral landscape. All of this but without knowing who you would be on this new earth.

Simple question with a yes or no answer - based on this veil of ignorance, would you allow humans to be owned as property?

You are just showing how ignorant you are and th3 fact tha5 you have no idea of the context in which these laws were made. He did not author the laws of slavery slavery was already a fact of life in every society. What the Lord did do was to regulate slavery and give slaves some rights. What it did do was also to free slaves on the day of Jubilee. You say God knows he cannot take people beyond what their own understanding is even though people like you have no understanding whatsoever. You are showing by your own reaction that you have no understanding of what people are like. For the early church to preached against slavery in the Roman times would’ve meant mass crucifixion of them so they simply tried to show slaves how to deal with it while preaching that all men are equal in the sight of God which eventually lead many years later to the abolishment of the slave trade with evangelical Christians and Quakers leading the way. For the early church to preached against slavery in the Roman times would’ve meant mass crucifixion of them so they simply tried to show slaves how to deal with it while preaching that all men are equal in the sight of God which eventually lead many years later to the abolishment of the slave trade with evangelical Christians and Quakers leading the way.
I think you should take the day litigants test as you’re obviously completely ignorant of history. Start there!
@SW-User

@Harriet03

I think that is correct although not necessarily in a sinister sense.

@Harriet03 oh it is, comfortable and convenient!

@HannibalAteMeOut
You are right! Christians believe God that we are sinners so we judge ourselves, not God! Because we are guilty! That’s hard to swallow, most don’t ! But it’s the truth! Jesus God almighty loves us and tells us the truth! And he takes our sins on his account so we don’t have to suffer the consequence!

@Carazaa I was raised as a christian so I understand the thinking even though I don't follow the religion myself.

@BlueVeins

lol well yes, in the same way it's badass that lex luthor wanted to blow up california so that he would own the new coastline.

@Pikachu 👌🏿

@Pikachu

@Speedyman

@Pikachu

@Pikachu The point (appears to be) missed though, in sweeping aside 'God doesn't operate on a human level' - they are horrifying crimes [b]by our particular standards[/b], but, presumably, not by God's. You speak of recognisable standards of morality, but appear not to recognise any other than your own.

What we often learn (thanks to the influence of the beautifully poetic but inconsistently-accurate King James Version of the Bible) as 'Thou shalt not kill', is in the original Hebrew לֹא תִּרְצָח - "no murder".

The Old Testament sees (as do societies today) a distinction between the killing of innocents, and killing in consequence of a crime (which is related to the idea of killing being more easily justified, even if not desirable, if it is done in self-defence). The idea continues into the New Testament: one of those crucified with Jesus was (apparently) a murderer, and reportedly sees a difference between his own (justified) death, and Jesus's death which as Jesus is innocent, is unjustified.

(This infinite sacrifice of his innocent Son is, of course, at the heart of our salvation; but again perhaps a matter for a different thread).

If God is incapable of evil, then by definition something God does however perplexing and awful we find it to be, cannot be evil. Presumably no one is going to argue that, assuming God exists, He isn't capable of any good at all.

But, if God can do good, but does (seeming) evil too, then why do we find Him so fickle, performing miracles in saving people one minute and raining down brimstones the next?

The answer must be that God in the OT, with all his smiting, drowning, burning etc, is doing justice - by His standards rather than ours. If you read verses other than the ones about plagues and lightning strikes, it becomes apparent that God's "criminal" action comes only in response to a human offence.

By the standard of morality which by implication God recognises, it is entirely excusable and justifiable. The fact that some of us today do not like God's standard of morality is our problem, and not God's.

But lest we forget, God sacrificed Himself as well, to break this cycle of death altogether.

@AngieB

[quote] but, presumably, not by God's[/quote]

Yeah dude, that's special pleading. It's a logical fallacy wherein you seek to give special exception to something without sufficient reason.
In this case, you attempt to excuse horrifying behaviour with nothing more than the justification of "god's ways are not our ways".

This is unconvincing as a moral argument.

[quote], but appear not to recognise any other than your own.[/quote]

I don't think you really meant that.
By your standard of morality, would it be wrong to go to your enemy's country and kill not only his soldiers but the old and the sick and the women and the babies and maybe their pets and livestock for good measure?

Of course.
I think anyone who isn't a psychopath would hold that same standard.

[quote]"no murder"[/quote]

Yup. And i'm pretty sure killing a baby or hundreds of babies or thousands of babies would count as murder, yes?

[quote]If God is incapable of evil,[/quote]

I reject your premise.
There is zero justification for this conclusion beyond that it is baldly asserted in apparent contradiction to god's "documented" actions.

[quote]The answer must be that God in the OT, with all his smiting, drowning, burning etc, is doing justice [/quote]

Again, i reject your premise. You have offered no justification for why his bouts of mercy and murder must be considered the application of justice.

[quote]it becomes apparent that God's "criminal" action comes only in response to a human offence.[/quote]

Sure. And an abusive husband only beats his wife when she offends him.


[quote]But lest we forget, God sacrificed Himself as well, to break this cycle of death altogether.
[/quote]

Lest we forget, god sacrificed his weekend.

@AngieB Yes I agree with what you said! God is just to kill the guilty, and we are all guilty! So it’s a gracious God to save even one person! This is spiritual truth! However, when Jesus became the slaughtered lamb to forgive our sins he did not abolish sin in the world and that still has consequences! The world is still cursed because of our sins and God sends plagues, fires, and terrors to us as signs of his soon return and judgements!

@Rhodesianman you say religion is for the weak minded and then you tell somebody else off for being insulting. What a double standard! Shows how little you think. Actually atheism is based on ignorance which my research on this form is shown

@Rhodesianman

I don't think i would say it's for the weak-minded. Although to a large degree i would say that's it's a security blanket.

Humans like answers so we make up answers to questions we find puzzling like our origins.
We also seek to assuage our fear of pain, oblivion and separation...so we get gods and afterlives.

That's honestly all i get out of the bible. Just a human story for humans by humans which attempts to make sense of a confusing world.

I find the books of chronicles and kings to be great examples of this. They just read as the petty wars and ascension and fall of various kings...and then they just assign the success or failure to god.

It really does astound me that anyone sees divinity in this book.

It really does astound me that you think you have a brain when this book has been read over and debated by great minds for centuries. Can’t you see that in it you say that God is trying to deal with his people and at the end of it he is seeking to bring up a Messiah who will redeem the world. The problem is you are so busy getting lost in the trees you cannot see the wood. You really need to expand that mind of yours@Pikachu

@Pikachu Well for example I have known complete assholes that became saved yet didn't change at all. They were still people that would stab you in the back. I have know a couple of "Christian" car dealers and mechanics. They would swap out new parts in a car and replace them with old ones then sell the new ones. These people pick out the bad parts to support their hate. Homophobes are always quoting the few passages in the Bible to support their hate. People I've known talk about how Jesus called people pigs and fools and beat people out of the temple. Completely ignoring his message of love. Their personality comes through in what they choose to emphasize. And good people on the other hand will ignore the hateful parts even to the point of cognitive blindness. Literally not being able to recognize the hate at all. Which is certainly an improvement on the former. But it makes both hard to talk to.

@canusernamebemyusername

Ah i see what you're saying.
Yes, shitty people who believe in jesus just use scripture to excuse their shitty behaviour.

@canusernamebemyusername
The bad part of the Bible is that we are sinners, and are cursed by God and deserve death! The good part is that Jesus died and took yours and my sins on his shoulders so we can live in heaven forever. Surely the Jews didn’t make that up to condemn themselves!

@SW-User

That is an impression which i have been unable to escape.

You are completely wrong in everything you say. We are not slaves to him in our redemption we are sons@basilfawlty89

@Speedyman

If you say so, buddy🙂

Of course it’s true. Pity you don’t share it. I really feel sorry for you. @Pikachu

@blackravencat Yabes?