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Serious question for theists: [Spirituality & Religion]

I know on this site I'm mostly known as one of those edgy atheists who make fun of religion and its followers all the time, but I do have a genuine question for the theists on this site:

How can you still believe there is an all-powerful, all-good god while looking at the world as it is?
Whenever I think about all the crazy and horrible stuff that happened and is going on the world rn I just [i]know[/i] that there cannot be a god who is omnipotent as well as omnibenevolent. It just doesn't add up.
Please don't be offended, I'm just genuinely curious.

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LukeTheDuke · M

I am a believer, but I do not have a good answer that explains why God allows suffering. And I don’t buy into the concept of free will as a good enough argument, because that doesn’t cover things like people being born with terrible illnesses, natural disasters etc. I just don’t know.

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LukeTheDuke · M

You disbelieving me is something I can live with. @Emosaur

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HoraceGreenley · 56-60, M

Free Will

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HoraceGreenley · 56-60, M

@Emosaur OK...whatever...if that helps you sleep at night, then cling to it.

Sharon · F

@HoraceGreenley [quote]God created Hell.[/quote]
It doesn't say that in the bible.

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PrivateHell · M

The way I see it (as a former "edgy" atheist myself) is it's a question of understanding both free will and the relationship between God and man.

God does not "create" suffering, nor does He "allow" it, any more than your father allows anything bad you might do today.

God has given us not only the ability to determine right from wrong, but also the ability to correct it or stop it.

We love asking "Why did God allow this?" When the real question we should be asking is "Why did we?"

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Sharon · F

@PrivateHell You presented opinion as an established fact. That's just the sort of dishonesty I've come to expect from christians.

In case you're unaware, when you post to an open forum, anyone is entitled to comment on it. Also, throwing childish insults at your opponents, such as calling them immature, doesn't strengthen your case, it weakens it. HTH.

PrivateHell · M

@Sharon how is my presenting opinion as fact any different than what you yourself have done? I have heard no evidence to support your claim tgat God is mythical? But I recognize the old circular patterns here, "rules for thee but not for me".

Funny how you can call me "childish" and accuse me of insulting you, given every statement you have made toward me so far has perfectly fit tgat description, and aside from an observation (backed by our interaction) about you maturity, I have been nothing but courteous.

How many times do I have to say this? I honestly don't care to win you over to my beliefs, so I have no "case" to be made. I merely wanted a civil discussion. You are the one that has prevented that.

Sharon · F

@PrivateHell [quote] I have heard no evidence to support your claim tgat God is mythical?[/quote]
There is no evidence that your god is real. As Bertrand Russell showed with his teapot analogy, it is for the one making the claim that something exists to prove that claim, not for other to disprove it. Do you accept that such entities as The Flying Spaghetti Monster, The Invisible Pink Unicorn, The Tooth Fairy, Santa Claus, etc. etc. are all real? There is no evidence they aren't.

That pattern you recognize is the one where your god is real, absent evidence it's not, but others aren't real, absent evidence they are. It's called double standards.

I asked when your opinion became established fact and then, as a demonstration, presented my opinion as "fact". You immediately jumped on your high-horse implying I was being insulting by ridiculing your beliefs. Double standards again.

When I pointed out that presenting your opinions as established fact is not the way to begin and honest discussion, you imply I lack maturity. Once again we see the usual christian double standards.

SW-User

😁😁😁 You love talking about the same thing.
They'd tell you that that's caused by humans themselves, you can't blame God for someone being evil nor for the selfishness of certain people.... 😁😁😁😁😁

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SW-User

@BlueVeins both are different, faith isn't objective, it's a personal experience so can't measure it like that. Is simple.
I am not religious but I respect people and these posts, are always entertaining for me.

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SW-User

@Emosaur 😂 😂 😂 well if these arguments make you feel alive.... 😌 🤭🤭🤭

TAReturns · M

God IS "omnipotent as well as omnibenevolent". Human beings are not.
When bad things happen in our lives, we don't blame God for them. We blame the horrible people here on Earth who made them happen. I admit I pray to God to make good things happen in my life, but I don't ask God to open up the skies, reach down, and fix all the horrible stuff that idiots and bad humans have done, and I don't expect God to do that without my asking. That's about the best way I can describe it.

BlueVeins · 22-25

@TAReturns Well, what about the stuff that isn't anyone's fault?

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Doomflower · 36-40, M

Ex Christian and strong atheist here but it will be "free will"

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Doomflower · 36-40, M

@BlueVeins yeah. Nevermind that a good deal of evil has nothing to do with human decision making.

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Doomflower · 36-40, M

@Emosaur I had a Christian once christsplain that when Adam and Eve made that one decision of which god didn't approve and god cursed them, natural disasters were implied when he said the earth would not just easily provide food and humans would have to struggle against the elements. I thought it was a pretty good retcon.

Boallods · 26-30, M

First of all, thank you for approaching this issue genuinely.

As you probably know, the Bible is not oblivious to the existence of evil. People have worshipped the Lord for 3000 years now, and never seen the existence of evil as contradictory to their faith.

Firstly, the Lord gave us everything. EVERYTHING. Even the things we have we do not deserve, so asking for even more is childish. This is a simple fact too many people (even the faithful) oft forget. I myself try to be content with what I have, and sometimes fail, even though I am blessed by God beyond what I could describe.

Secondly, there is the obvious fact of free will. The Lord gave us free will so that we might enjoy the things we do because we chose them. Forcing us to be happy would be just meaningless.

Thirdly, there's the fact that God can use evil for good purposes. The Bible gives numerous examples of this, from the Book of Genesis onwards.

Fourthly, all injustices will be made right one day: all misdeeds punished, and all good deeds rewarded. God shall be silent upon no complaint.

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CopperCicada · M

I'm just going to throw this out there.

I come at religion more from a contemplative angle. Generating inner qualities. Looked at from that angle, no religious narrative needs to make sense. It needs to create an inner experience. One that informs how we relate to others. The unanswered questions we have in life, which includes some absolute-- God, enlightenment. Our meaning in life. Trying to reason through religious narratives is as fruitless and pointless as trying to defend them through science.

The problem of evil is perennial. There is no answer. Every answer we come up with is, hopefully, unsatisfactory when we actually face evil. But that's sort of the point. To keep asking and keep coming up with unsatisfactory answers. That might sound ridiculous, but if you approach faith from a contemplative angle-- that's a great gift. It brings the problem of evil up as an open question for us. Always. There is no complacency. There is no resting on the laurels of our faith, our reason.

Just an endless eternal "why".

And that only matters because of what it does to us. To our insides. Makes us vigilant, compassionate. Loving. Makes us ethical. What it does to our faith and confidence.

Peaches · F

There is a battle between good and evil that started a long time ago. It's accelerating now and may what's good in the universe [i][b]win!

[/b][/i]

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Peaches · F

@Emosaur Using a word that most can identify with. ⭐️

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Peaches · F

@Emosaur I grew up Christian and that's okay with me. I just question a lot of the bible but still believe something is there for us...

Penny · 46-50, F

that seems to be a common misconception about God. he damns people. he's not omnibenevolent. if you go by the bible, it's his orders to release the plagues and all that kind of stuff. why do people all think God is such a goody goody? Our Father in heaven and all that can be a prick.

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Penny · 46-50, F

@Emosaur only way to know God is through Jesus, ask Jesus into your heart if you ever want

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Penny · 46-50, F

@Emosaur be patient. you are young. Jesus didnt come into his own even until he was 33. may i suggest studying the paths of yoga and picking one to follow for a while https://sivanandayogafarm.org/blog/4-paths-of-yoga/

midnightsun · 26-30, M

I'm sooo offended

MagesMax · 22-25, M

It comforts people to make things easier and see them black and white.

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