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Want to see a one hit K.O by evolution to young earth creationism? [Spirituality & Religion]

Look no farther than the way the fossil record is stratified.

It's absolutely incompatible with a young earth creation world view and i've yet to see any creationist adequately defend their position on this.

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GodSpeed63 · 61-69, M

You forget, evolution was knocked out, not creation. The fossil record shows no signs of evolution.

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Pikachu

@BetweenKittensandRiots

lol yup

BetweenKittensandRiots · 36-40, MVIP

@Pikachu [youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVuw1wEuaAQ]

BetweenKittensandRiots · 36-40, MVIP

[youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IexaINZ61E]

Frank52 · 70-79, M

A basic mistake made by some extremely vocal Christian groups is the same as that made by very vocal scientists. Even to attempt to turn the Bible into a scientific treatise is a waste of time. Large swathes of the Christian church understand the creation stories(yes plural) in Genesis as faith-based stories on the nature of humanity, sin, the relationship with God and how the world is the way it is. It could never be literal - for a start it seems the earth is flat. They are true of course, but not in a scientific way. There is no weighing and measuring love, but few scientists reduce that concept SOLELY to brain function, heart rate and physiological expression. It needs poetry and metaphor to get to the essence of spiritual thinking.

It is quite possible to hold to scientific method an accept experiential truths and believe in a God who intervenes and rescues those who recognise their need. This thread is placed in a group called 'Spirituality and Religion' yet it demands a response which may not include a spiritual element. It's a perfectly legitimate debating position to deny any spiritual truth exists: I guess it's even acceptable to deny science any sway (but give up your car and posting on here if you think that) but this age old attempt to force spiritual truth into scientific method is doomed to fail. Both sides will fail - as I believe has been proved below.

The only possible reward from engaging in an argument with no agreed basis of thought is, as far as I can see, the sense of self-satisfaction in believing that your side (whichever that is) has the 'truth' and the other side are idiots for not seeing it. But that's probably not unique to this debate.

Just in case you haven't worked it out, I am one of the many Bible believing Christians who is not a Creationist.

I retire before the onslaught. 😬

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GodSpeed63 · 61-69, M

@Pikachu [quote]Gonna go out on a limb here and say that he believes the message of the bible and salvation through Christ[/quote]

I'll let him answer my question.

Pikachu

@GodSpeed63

I'm sure he will. Surely you don't begrudge me my opinion.

Frank52 · 70-79, M

@GodSpeed63 I will gladly answer in my own words but Pikachu has summed it up well. I need more time and space to develop my position and I will start a new thread when I have time otherwise this one will become overly confused. Like Pikachu I notice you tend to come back with assertions or questions that don't actually involve a reasoned response. I look forward to picking this up in a few days when I can.

Carazaa · F

I believe there was a flood and with floods a lot can happen with sinking soil. Also God can create anything looking old. Like Adam and Eve were created and they were never children. Their bones were one day old looking like about 20 years old right? Our brains are not as smart as God so that we can create humans or the earth, so no-one really knows, but God tells us everything we need to know for now in the Bible. Also he on purpose made things debatable to test our faith, yep...He wants to see our faith...How wonderful is that ha ha! ☘️

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Pikachu

@Carazaa

Carazaa, the sources you have provided thus far don't even dispute the things i'm telling you.
So what are you suggesting that we should be unsure about?
I assume you actually read through your source so you KNOW that it doesn't dispute what i described to you in my last post.

If you feel that i am missing the pertinent section, please copy and paste it here.

[quote]! I don't appreciate that you don't accept my answers... You have to believe the Geologists on the sites I gave you unless you are a geologist.[/quote]

Why? Do you have to believe the geologists and biologists i post?
Were you expecting me to uncritically accept whatever you told me?
Would [i]you[/i] uncritically accept [i]my [/i] sources if i sent you a bunch of links about how evolution definitely happened?
Would you be happy if i demanded that you accept those answers since you are not a biologist? Because i can do that if that's what you want.

No? Well if you wouldn't accept that kind of argument then why should i?

Sorry if that was a bit abrasive. I don't like it when people claim to believe in logic but don't apply it equally.

You'll agree that whatever outliers there may be, the scientific [i]consensus[/i] supports my position.
I mean, there are actual scientists who believe the earth is flat. Should we lend their position equal weight to the overwhelming majority of scientists who disagree based upon empirical evidence?

The answer is no. Not until they can provide sufficient evidence.

If you no longer wish to debate then simply say so but don't tell me that i must accept your sources unless you're prepared to accept mine. Don't tell me that there is too much disagreement among the scientific community because there simply isn't.
There exist outliers. That's it.

And you haven't even given me a source which disputes what i've told you.

Carazaa · F

Please stop!

Pikachu

@Carazaa

Ok. I'll be here if you decide you would like to apply your analytical mind and not just demand that i stop disagreeing with you.

You've disappointed me, carazaa.
Talk to you later.

Adaydreambeliever · 56-60, F

Mere facts wont stop them! They are the kind who believe opinion and faith are facts.

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Carazaa · F

@Adaydreambeliever Faith is fact but can not be proven. God created science and all true science is provable of ourse.

Entwistle · 56-60, M

@Carazaa faith is fact but can not be proven? Then how do you know it's fact?

Adaydreambeliever · 56-60, F

@Carazaa I am afraid when you say faith is a fact.. that that's really the problem.. faith ISN'T a fact.. and so the whole premise is mistaken

annie616pop · 26-30, F

Trying to counter a religious belief with scientific reasoning is like trying to convince a pair of hungry lions to pass up on a slow running zebra because God meant them to be vegetarians.

Cmstars · 22-25, F

Young Earth creationism isn't even supported by the Bible, let alone the fossil record and I'm a creationist.

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Cmstars · 22-25, F

@Carazaa Well in that case, I'll share my view. haha. Adam and Eve don't age until after the fall since death for Humans have not entered the world through sin. So they weren't millions of years old. All that young earth creationists are dating is how long since the fall. That is it.

Pikachu

@Cmstars

[quote] All that young earth creationists are dating is how long since the fall. [/quote]

Interesting

Carazaa · F

@Cmstars Yes I think that is a possibility., I never even considered that before. There is before mans fall, and after. Thank you!

SW-User

I think the argument goes that it is a test of faith.

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Pikachu

@SW-User

I'd say that it's even worse than that.
That's still you're failing if you go for her because you know its wrong.

But by the "test of faith" logic, god is showing you hard evidence which says that the bible is not factually accurate and then punishing you when you accept that evidence.

Carazaa · F

@SW-UserYes, nice. God said it so I believe it. Prove it didn't happen I say!

SW-User

@Carazaa That is kinda like telling me you can jump over the Empire State Building and then asking me to prove you can’t. You make the claim. You prove it’s true.

SW-User

Thats because factual arguments just bounce off the paint without a stratch.

ozgirl512 · 26-30, F

Facts don't matter when it comes to religion

Harriet03 · 41-45, F

[image deleted]🤷‍♀️

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Pikachu

@GodSpeed63

[quote]You just did.
[/quote]

No. Bad.
Don't be a child.
Don't play stupid games.

You're a grown up so act like it.

If you have a point to make then make it. Don't force people to cajole and coddle you into actually making a specific point or argument.

Grow up.

P.S. this is where you're going to feel compelled to say "no YOU!"

Resist that compulsion and just speak plainly.

Harriet03 · 41-45, F

@GodSpeed63 [image deleted]🤷‍♀️

Bushranger · 70-79, M

@GodSpeed63 As @Pikachu pointed out, you need to make a point, not just spout childish statements. Give evidence, not scripture or schoolyard statements.

windinhishair · 61-69, M

Young Earth Creationism is completely incompatible with facts, as you point out. The only creationism that may be compatible with the facts is intelligent design.

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Pikachu

@SW-User

Oh it's definitely a position with a number of problems, it's just that it doesn't have to deny the evidence of the real world.

windinhishair · 61-69, M

@SW-User A cop out in some ways, but it does acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being and could be consistent with the facts. Most creationism has to overlook the facts.

NortiusMaximus · M

@windinhishair It leaves the question of where that being came from. As others have pointed out, any answer to that could simply be applied to the supposed creation instead.

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