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Spirituality & Religion

Mildly Adult · Notifications: · Oldest First
Why are so many Christians so sex negative?
Almost in the sense of against sexuality in general? Many act like that it is ok to have SEXUALITY if you are legally married, otherwise not only to them, should one not have sexual intercourse, but one should also be completely sexless. Biologically...
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46-50, M
5
63 replies
73 views
Mar 16, 2019
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Replies are sorted by Newest First. Show Oldest First »
Hikingguy · 51-55, M
Great write up. Thank you.
Greybare · M
Christians are nuts. That anti-sex thing is a big part of it. So are some other well known religions.
SpiritualMan · 46-50, M
[@880701,Greybare] I am shocked so many Hindus are anti sex with Tantra and the Kama Sutra.
Greybare · M
[@778667,SpiritualMan] Victorian England ruled India for about two centuries. Indian laws about nudity and sex are still from English rule.
SpiritualMan · 46-50, M
[@880701,Greybare] Ah ha, that explains it.
CopperCicada · 51-55, M
It has its roots in two sources.

One is ideas of natural order and the place of God and man in that. God is love and it is God'd love that made Creation. And so attempting to parallel divine order on the human sphere-- it is only sexual relationships based in love which create life are not evil. So only sex with a life partner. Only sex to create life intentionally. Only sexual acts which lead to conception. Namely unprotected vaginal sex at ovulation between partners who can conceive.

Any other sexual activity goes against that natural order and is sodomy. Sex for pleasure. Sex for love but not conception
Sex for conception but involving sex acts that don't lead to conception, like oral sex.

The other is the impact of Cartesian dualism on Reformation thought. The body, mind and soul are completely separate. And the body is entirely foul, perverted, base and evil. And the body represents the original fall and it is apparatus through which Satan operates. It is only the spiritual and mental faculties which can be enjoyed and trusted. So physical pleasures are to be minimized and restrained.

Put those two together and it is a very anti-sexuality world view. I have found few exceptions.
CopperCicada · 51-55, M
[@778667,SpiritualMan] You could also say it is from Calvin's bipartite theology. That man has a material and an immaterial (soul) component. It's a break from the tripartite view of man of the early church fathers. That man is body, spirit and soul. In truth I suspect Descartes was more damaging because it gutted intellectual life of any possibility of having mind and body anything but split apart.

You can Google "bipartite theology" and "Cartesian dualism".
SpiritualMan · 46-50, M
[@482591,CopperCicada] I will read up on it. I will say that there are probably some aspects of this is unbiblical, but I will look it up and find out.
SpiritualMan · 46-50, M
[@482591,CopperCicada] It sounds like the Cartesian dualism just says the spirit is a separate part of us that survives death. This is biblical. Now the separation is temporary only until the resurrection. Now then somewhere along the line I think the idea came along that one should refrain from biblical pleasures to be more spiritual. This IS Gnostic heresy, and the bible refutes it.

That man has a non-material spirit (and I disagree with this point, I do think the spirit has substance to it, it just is immortal, and may be interdimensional, I am increasingly seeing evidence that the spiritual realm is interdimensional, but has real substance to it), it does not follow that God wants us to refrain from physical pleasures to be more spiritual. Part of God's redemption is healing, and part of healing is to re-integrate our parts that have been fractured by sin and our fallen world.
ladycae · 100+, F
we can not control our thoughts and feelings. what we can do is trust them to God which is not easy. i find that sex ks a wonderful expression of love between to people but i also find for me to use it simply to scratch an itch is sinful, not because of the sex but because i am then using another person. being gay, marriage was off the table until recently but i had a commitment ceremony with my partner and from that moment on we kept our sexual relations between ourselves until she passed.
ladycae · 100+, F
both the male and female mentioned in Romans refers to temple prostitution if you look at the early translations and the cultural practices of the day
SpiritualMan · 46-50, M
[@1119,ladycae] That is true on Romans. I didn't say you had to agree. Some of my views are what they are because I started using to context to interpret bible verses. Not ALL sexual sin is in the context of temple prostitution, such as incest or adultery, but temple prostitution was often a major component of sexual sin in the ancient world.
SpiritualMan · 46-50, M
[@1119,ladycae] On the astral sex, it isn't as complicated as you think. I think that a sexual union can be seen as a symbol for spiritual closeness. That does NOT mean that you do or even should get a sexual feeling from EVERYONE you are spiritually close to, however, I do see the parallel there in general. So then perhaps when I am spiritually connected with a woman, the feedback hits our minds and bodies and can sometimes produce a sexual feeling.
DonaldTrumpet · 70-79, M
ITs becauSez The MinisteRz molesteDz theMz as KidZ
DonaldTrumpet · 70-79, M
[@778667,SpiritualMan] I thinKx U Iz RiTeZ. relegiOnz MakeZ paedoiphiLez
SpiritualMan · 46-50, M
[@467787,DonaldTrumpet] Religion doesn't turn people into pedophiles, but I think some with those inclinations work their way into church leadership. I might argue that giving yourself to darker spirits might try to push one into being a pedophile.
DonaldTrumpet · 70-79, M
[@778667,SpiritualMan] SeeMz a LOTz Of KiDZ QueerZ cUMMingz OuTz ALLz overZ tHz placeZ.
Frank52 · 61-69, M
You write a lot a very well thought through sense here. Since sex is built into creation as a natural way to procreate and it is such a pleasurable act, I believe that it is fundamentally good and can be the most profound act.

I agree with everything you say about those Christians who deny that they or anyone else actually thinks about sex outside of the restrictions of marriage vows, but we need to distinguish between acting things out, deliberately entertaining thoughts we know to be wrong and temptation. Temptation is not wrong. Jesus was tempted. To condemn people because their natural drive sometimes gives them momentary lustful thoughts is wide of the mark. However, to continue to foster those thoughts and indulge them is, I believe, what Jesus is talking about in Matthew 5. The injunctions about sexual infidelity come amidst a list of references to other Mosaic laws and each time, Jesus qualifies them to show that the literalism of the Pharisees is not enough to meet God's instructions. It's our heart's attitude which is the most important thing and that is a theme through the Jewish scriptures and the Christian Gospels and early writings.

I think Christians are wrong to emphasis sexual sins above others - sin is sin. However, whenever Christians speak about ANY subject, the most common push back comes in the form of questions about sexuality. I submit that it is not just Christians who fixate on this but most people (look at the amount of posting on here that seems concerned with it). I very much agree with your last sentence and whether others recognise it or not, when you engage in sexual activity, you are giving of your most spiritual self.
Frank52 · 61-69, M
[@778667,SpiritualMan] Like us, the Early Church Fathers were exploring and examining their faith, with what would become to be accepted as Holy Scripture and the reality of life as they experienced it. Some of their doctrine is still held by some, but most mainstream Protestant theology would not accept that there is a possibility of salvation after death and that the sin against the Holy Spirit is the ONLY unforgivable sin. My understanding of that is that you are worried that you have accidentally done it, then you haven't and that fact that you care shows you still have the conscience God gave you. In matters of sexual conduct, each church grouping seems to have more or less liberal guidance (and some cases rules) and so we come back to making sure we have a firm grasp of what the Bible actually says, an active prayer life and fellow believers to be accountable to and an openness to the Spirit to instruct and develop our thinking. Only then can we be sure we're not just justifying a momentary lustful act.
SpiritualMan · 46-50, M
[@908775,Frank52] I don't think accidentally blasphemy the Holy Spirit. If one does it by accident, God doesn't count it as the unforgivable sin in that case.

Ezekiel 16 talks about Sodom's fortunes being restored and their captivity being turned some day. To me that sounds like salvation after death. Remember Jesus said they would have repented had they seem the miracles He did that other cities did not repent when they saw those miracles.

On lust, it isn't having lust vs not having it that matters. It is who or what you lust for. A single woman is ok, a married woman is not. To be a pastor is ok, to rule the world as a dictator is not.

From what I see in the bible, if we don't do or desire the sexual sins listed on it, we have a lot more sexual freedom than what many teach.
SpiritualMan · 46-50, M
[@908775,Frank52] I think there is an interesting dynamic here. When I post more sex positive stuff from the bible, trying to more accurately show what is and is not sexual sin, many non-Christians have had brutal responses. I think that is because I am taking away people's excuses to keep rejecting God. It is like well if God is less strict than you originally were led to believe, why keep rejecting Him. However some wish to keep rejecting God anyway, so when you take away their excuses, they get angry. I don't care, God is calling people to faith, repentance right now.

All the anger tells me am truly passing on what God really says.
SpiritualMan · 46-50, M
The conclusion then, is that in my view, only certain forms of erotica are a sin, if they depict or celebrate specific things the bible lists as a sexual sin. Otherwise, you do not sin in using the material. Other than that, God wants us to seek Him first, and live a healthy, balanced life. God doesn't want us to use erotic material to isolate ourselves from others either, but overall, I don't see it as a sin if it does not depict or celebrate specific sexual sins. Now a big category on some websites right now is incest porn (real or depicted by actors). I believe THAT is a sin.
shaelan · 36-40, M
I am not qualified to speak on this matter, but having said that...

Sexuality is the strongest desire in the human body and single-handedly responsible for the survival of the species, which is interesting in this aspect.

What if..? Sexual sin could be an issue because of the negative karma it creates for everyone involved.

When a union exists, it lasts beyond the lifetime of its creation, even by saying "I'll love you forever". These words carry power. Violating the sanctity at any point results in karmic action and later rebalancing, and carries into future incarnations, where resolution is attempted. Why relationships come, go, last only so long, etc. is or, could be, due to this balancing action.

Taken in this context, your post may have some new meaning.
SpiritualMan · 46-50, M
[@497118,shaelan] I do believe there will sexuality in the next world. Jesus did say there won't be marriage, or at least not in the sense we understand it in this life. Sexual sin certainly does rebound in negative ways at us.
GerOttman · 61-69, M
Wow.. all that huh? So as recently as a hundred years ago people died a lot more often. Just staying alive from one day to the next took more effort. Not only recreational sex but recreational anything could sometimes be a lethal waste of time. Sex for fun is a new concept in a longer historical point of view. It's not supposed to be fun, you're just supposed to make as many babies as you can as fast as you can so a few of them lived long enough to reproduce on their own.
SpiritualMan · 46-50, M
[@755518,GerOttman] Well no doubt, I don't see the bible as calling unmarried sex a sin, however it does seem that in the bible when people had concubines, they often had them live with them in the home long term, or for life at least if they produced children with them. It would make sense if you produced a child with a concubine that you don't release her too lightly. That would be godly in the way ancient society was structured.

We do live in the context of our current time and technology.
SpiritualMan · 46-50, M
[@755518,GerOttman] Of course regarding sexual thoughts and feelings, that was never a sin for a single person in the ancient world or now. The BIGGER issue to God, are you coveting another man's wife WHILE having said sexual thoughts or feelings.
Crazychick · 31-35, F
What does the Bible say about sadomasochism? Is that a sin?
Crazychick · 31-35, F
[@778667,SpiritualMan] Not that I'm religious, but you've made me feel better now. Lol :)
SpiritualMan · 46-50, M
[@496415,Crazychick] Well I wonder, if I lived in the ancient world, and saw these Amazon women ride up....well....ya know....
Crazychick · 31-35, F
[@778667,SpiritualMan] Lol :)

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