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Spirituality & Religion

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Why are so many Christians so sex negative?
Almost in the sense of against sexuality in general? Many act like that it is ok to have SEXUALITY if you are legally married, otherwise not only to them, should one not have sexual intercourse, but one should also be completely sexless. Biologically and psychologically this is impossible, so one must PRETEND to be asexual instead of ACTUALLY being asexual, IF one wants to please these kinds of Christians. Now granted, many Christians are much more sex positive in general, but there are groups who are more extreme.

Many ACT like that if you are single AND you have sexual thoughts or feelings AT all, you are violating Matthew 5:27-28. Herein lies the dilemma. Because of how our bodies and minds are designed, this is impossible except for a select minority of the human population.

I have discovered a few things that may partially solve this dilemma. First of all, the Old Testament was originally written in Hebrew and some Aramaic, and at about 270 B.C. a Greek translation of it was made, called the Greek Septuagint. The New Testament was originally written in Greek. Also, one of the major rules of biblical interpretation is to use context. It is to use the verse surrounding a word, the verses surrounding a verse, chapters around a chapter, a book of the bible around chapters, and see how books of the bible fit together. I contend also the historical background of the ancient world, and also the Apocryphal literature that gives more details on events in the bible.

In breaking down Matthew 5:27-28, I noticed that Jesus is talking about ADULTERY of the heart. So the key here, I believe is that Jesus is saying that DESIRING to commit adultery IS ADULTERY of the heart. In the Old Testament adultery is defined as taking another man's wife or betrothed (in the ancient world you needed an official divorce so break a betrothal, so that counted as adultery). In an Apocryphal book taking another man's CONCUBINE seems to be a "lesser" form of adultery with a lesser punishment than prescribed in the bible for full blown adultery.

Second, the base Greek word for woman is "gune", and a different form of the word is used in Matthew here "gunaika" which is a suffix added on, and when I went to check a list of verses using "guinaka" and "gune", most of the time "gunaika" is used when referring to a wife, "gune" is a more generic term for woman. This isn't ALWAYS the case in the New Testament, but it is a general pattern. So then we have ADULTERY of the heart, and a form of the Greek word for woman that usually refers to a wife. Contextually it would make more sense Jesus is referring to a wife here, and not a single woman. Also the Greek word for lust means to desire or a strong desire. In the Greek Septuagint when talking about coveting another man's wife, it uses the same Greek word for lust that Matthew 5:27-28 uses. In fact I believe it is likely Jesus was MERELY reminding the people "you know what, you know physically adultery is a sin, but SO is coveting another man's wife". I believe Jesus was merely reminding people of the commandment against coveting your neighbor's wife here.

This harmonizes also with Old Testament passages where some characters had concubines in addition to wives or even instead of a wife or wives, and they were NEVER told to repent or marry their concubines.

Those wonderful, devout, religious people known as the Pharisees, so devout that they practiced their religion all the way to....HELL....taught that only outward behavior counted, your heart didn't matter. With this in mind it is no surprise that Jesus corrected these misconceptions when He came along. The Pharisees were such nice fellows, they said your heart didn't matter, but then they added thousands of rules to the commands in the Law of Moses. There are some verses where Jesus accused the Pharisees of teaching the commands of men as if they were the commands of God. This is what He was talking about. I don't exactly think Jesus was displeased when the Pharisees told people to do things ACTUALLY in the Law of Moses, he just called them out for the totality of their hypocrisy.

This makes much more sense then in that people need not feel guilty over having sexual thoughts or feelings if they are married. The legal marriage and divorce system in the US is a mess, but I won't go into that here.

I have heard a few Christian teachers LITERALLY say that for single people that ANY sexual thought or feeling, ANY AT ALL, is a violation of Matthew 5:27-28. In my own experience, and probably for most people in the world, in order to stop having sexual thoughts and feelings, you would need to leave your body. I do wonder if sometimes a spiritual union is a parallel of a sexual union in the natural (there are actually few bible verses that hint at this), so even if you leave your body, you might get the equivalent anyway. This may or may not produce the same kind of feelings as sexual pleasure, at least not all the time.
from Ephesians 5:

31 “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.”[c] 32 This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church

At the very least a sexual union SYMBOLIZES a spiritual union, so churches had better be careful not denigrate sexuality too much. The bible does list the sexual sins, including adultery, incest, rape, animals, and things like that, but again because those things are a twisting of sexuality. Maybe ACTUAL sexual sin is a big deal to God BECAUSE sexuality symbolizes a spiritual union.
46-50, M
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63 replies
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Mar 16, 2019
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GerOttman · 61-69, M
Wow.. all that huh? So as recently as a hundred years ago people died a lot more often. Just staying alive from one day to the next took more effort. Not only recreational sex but recreational anything could sometimes be a lethal waste of time. Sex for fun is a new concept in a longer historical point of view. It's not supposed to be fun, you're just supposed to make as many babies as you can as fast as you can so a few of them lived long enough to reproduce on their own.
SpiritualMan · 46-50, M
[@755518,GerOttman] Well no doubt, I don't see the bible as calling unmarried sex a sin, however it does seem that in the bible when people had concubines, they often had them live with them in the home long term, or for life at least if they produced children with them. It would make sense if you produced a child with a concubine that you don't release her too lightly. That would be godly in the way ancient society was structured.

We do live in the context of our current time and technology.
SpiritualMan · 46-50, M
[@755518,GerOttman] Of course regarding sexual thoughts and feelings, that was never a sin for a single person in the ancient world or now. The BIGGER issue to God, are you coveting another man's wife WHILE having said sexual thoughts or feelings.
 
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Byakuya · 26-30, M
ask donaldtrumpet. he knows everything lol
SpiritualMan · 46-50, M
[@535804,MrFluffles] Come back with something better than that.
SpiritualMan · 46-50, M
[@535804,MrFluffles] I have come to the conclusion that this donaldtrumpet guy in SW is not the #RealDonaldTrump.
Adaydreambeliever · 51-55, F
Well I agree.. but would say that fortunately not all countries have the more fanatical kind of Christian. .many have more laid back, accepting kinds who are happy to accept gay, bi, etc.. and believe that sex is part of normal life.
Adaydreambeliever · 51-55, F
[@778667,SpiritualMan] I am a bit confused... I am erring towards agreement with you.. I am assuming you are on board with that.. I don't know a lot about the ancient world, you have the advantage over me there.. You seem very intellectual.. that's rare on here so perhaps my skills are rusty :P but just to reinforce.. I agree mostly.. I do know that in the UK the belief back in the 1800s was that girl on girl love was not even a thing. they thought it impossible..

I am not really well up on the bible.. mainly that reinforces what I was saying.. we in the UK are not a religious country.. and the religious people we do have tend to be the easy going, less judgemental kind.. who would accept gay (of both kinds) and sex before marriage as normal.. Is that OK?
SpiritualMan · 46-50, M
[@7167,Adaydreambeliever] Well I don't see anything in the bible calling unmarried sex a sin, people had concubines. I do struggle with passages that directly speak against two men having sex. Some say it is only in a temple context, others in general.

Ah boy if they thought girl on girl love was impossible, what a lack of imagination. In today's world, just a few search terms and mouse clicks will put that misconception to rest.
Adaydreambeliever · 51-55, F
[@778667,SpiritualMan] hmm I guess... what I am saying is... (and I bow to your greater intellect here) is I don't really care what the bible says.. I am happy to leave that for you to analyse.. I was just saying that thankfully, most people in the UK aren't of the religious nutter kind.. thankfully..... I am not religious, people in the UK tend not to be.. we pretty much don't care what people do as long as it's consensual.. the bible doesn't really get a look in.
SW User
Coz religion's f***ed up
Crazychick · 31-35, F
What does the Bible say about sadomasochism? Is that a sin?
Crazychick · 31-35, F
[@778667,SpiritualMan] Not that I'm religious, but you've made me feel better now. Lol :)
SpiritualMan · 46-50, M
[@496415,Crazychick] Well I wonder, if I lived in the ancient world, and saw these Amazon women ride up....well....ya know....
Crazychick · 31-35, F
[@778667,SpiritualMan] Lol :)
shaelan · 36-40, M
I am not qualified to speak on this matter, but having said that...

Sexuality is the strongest desire in the human body and single-handedly responsible for the survival of the species, which is interesting in this aspect.

What if..? Sexual sin could be an issue because of the negative karma it creates for everyone involved.

When a union exists, it lasts beyond the lifetime of its creation, even by saying "I'll love you forever". These words carry power. Violating the sanctity at any point results in karmic action and later rebalancing, and carries into future incarnations, where resolution is attempted. Why relationships come, go, last only so long, etc. is or, could be, due to this balancing action.

Taken in this context, your post may have some new meaning.
SpiritualMan · 46-50, M
[@497118,shaelan] I do believe there will sexuality in the next world. Jesus did say there won't be marriage, or at least not in the sense we understand it in this life. Sexual sin certainly does rebound in negative ways at us.
SpiritualMan · 46-50, M
The conclusion then, is that in my view, only certain forms of erotica are a sin, if they depict or celebrate specific things the bible lists as a sexual sin. Otherwise, you do not sin in using the material. Other than that, God wants us to seek Him first, and live a healthy, balanced life. God doesn't want us to use erotic material to isolate ourselves from others either, but overall, I don't see it as a sin if it does not depict or celebrate specific sexual sins. Now a big category on some websites right now is incest porn (real or depicted by actors). I believe THAT is a sin.
Frank52 · 61-69, M
You write a lot a very well thought through sense here. Since sex is built into creation as a natural way to procreate and it is such a pleasurable act, I believe that it is fundamentally good and can be the most profound act.

I agree with everything you say about those Christians who deny that they or anyone else actually thinks about sex outside of the restrictions of marriage vows, but we need to distinguish between acting things out, deliberately entertaining thoughts we know to be wrong and temptation. Temptation is not wrong. Jesus was tempted. To condemn people because their natural drive sometimes gives them momentary lustful thoughts is wide of the mark. However, to continue to foster those thoughts and indulge them is, I believe, what Jesus is talking about in Matthew 5. The injunctions about sexual infidelity come amidst a list of references to other Mosaic laws and each time, Jesus qualifies them to show that the literalism of the Pharisees is not enough to meet God's instructions. It's our heart's attitude which is the most important thing and that is a theme through the Jewish scriptures and the Christian Gospels and early writings.

I think Christians are wrong to emphasis sexual sins above others - sin is sin. However, whenever Christians speak about ANY subject, the most common push back comes in the form of questions about sexuality. I submit that it is not just Christians who fixate on this but most people (look at the amount of posting on here that seems concerned with it). I very much agree with your last sentence and whether others recognise it or not, when you engage in sexual activity, you are giving of your most spiritual self.
Frank52 · 61-69, M
[@778667,SpiritualMan] Like us, the Early Church Fathers were exploring and examining their faith, with what would become to be accepted as Holy Scripture and the reality of life as they experienced it. Some of their doctrine is still held by some, but most mainstream Protestant theology would not accept that there is a possibility of salvation after death and that the sin against the Holy Spirit is the ONLY unforgivable sin. My understanding of that is that you are worried that you have accidentally done it, then you haven't and that fact that you care shows you still have the conscience God gave you. In matters of sexual conduct, each church grouping seems to have more or less liberal guidance (and some cases rules) and so we come back to making sure we have a firm grasp of what the Bible actually says, an active prayer life and fellow believers to be accountable to and an openness to the Spirit to instruct and develop our thinking. Only then can we be sure we're not just justifying a momentary lustful act.
SpiritualMan · 46-50, M
[@908775,Frank52] I don't think accidentally blasphemy the Holy Spirit. If one does it by accident, God doesn't count it as the unforgivable sin in that case.

Ezekiel 16 talks about Sodom's fortunes being restored and their captivity being turned some day. To me that sounds like salvation after death. Remember Jesus said they would have repented had they seem the miracles He did that other cities did not repent when they saw those miracles.

On lust, it isn't having lust vs not having it that matters. It is who or what you lust for. A single woman is ok, a married woman is not. To be a pastor is ok, to rule the world as a dictator is not.

From what I see in the bible, if we don't do or desire the sexual sins listed on it, we have a lot more sexual freedom than what many teach.
SpiritualMan · 46-50, M
[@908775,Frank52] I think there is an interesting dynamic here. When I post more sex positive stuff from the bible, trying to more accurately show what is and is not sexual sin, many non-Christians have had brutal responses. I think that is because I am taking away people's excuses to keep rejecting God. It is like well if God is less strict than you originally were led to believe, why keep rejecting Him. However some wish to keep rejecting God anyway, so when you take away their excuses, they get angry. I don't care, God is calling people to faith, repentance right now.

All the anger tells me am truly passing on what God really says.
DonaldTrumpet · 70-79, M
ITs becauSez The MinisteRz molesteDz theMz as KidZ
DonaldTrumpet · 70-79, M
[@778667,SpiritualMan] I thinKx U Iz RiTeZ. relegiOnz MakeZ paedoiphiLez
SpiritualMan · 46-50, M
[@467787,DonaldTrumpet] Religion doesn't turn people into pedophiles, but I think some with those inclinations work their way into church leadership. I might argue that giving yourself to darker spirits might try to push one into being a pedophile.
DonaldTrumpet · 70-79, M
[@778667,SpiritualMan] SeeMz a LOTz Of KiDZ QueerZ cUMMingz OuTz ALLz overZ tHz placeZ.
ladycae · 100+, F
we can not control our thoughts and feelings. what we can do is trust them to God which is not easy. i find that sex ks a wonderful expression of love between to people but i also find for me to use it simply to scratch an itch is sinful, not because of the sex but because i am then using another person. being gay, marriage was off the table until recently but i had a commitment ceremony with my partner and from that moment on we kept our sexual relations between ourselves until she passed.
ladycae · 100+, F
both the male and female mentioned in Romans refers to temple prostitution if you look at the early translations and the cultural practices of the day
SpiritualMan · 46-50, M
[@1119,ladycae] That is true on Romans. I didn't say you had to agree. Some of my views are what they are because I started using to context to interpret bible verses. Not ALL sexual sin is in the context of temple prostitution, such as incest or adultery, but temple prostitution was often a major component of sexual sin in the ancient world.
SpiritualMan · 46-50, M
[@1119,ladycae] On the astral sex, it isn't as complicated as you think. I think that a sexual union can be seen as a symbol for spiritual closeness. That does NOT mean that you do or even should get a sexual feeling from EVERYONE you are spiritually close to, however, I do see the parallel there in general. So then perhaps when I am spiritually connected with a woman, the feedback hits our minds and bodies and can sometimes produce a sexual feeling.
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