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To Skeptics Who Think They know Better Than The Rest Of Us [Spirituality & Religion]

Answer these questions one by one with direct answers if you can. They're from the book of Job. Take your time, there's no hurry.

3
Brace yourself like a man;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.

4
“Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?
Tell me, if you understand.
5
Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!
Who stretched a measuring line across it?
6
On what were its footings set,
or who laid its cornerstone—
7
while the morning stars sang together
and all the angels[a] shouted for joy?

8
“Who shut up the sea behind doors
when it burst forth from the womb,
9
when I made the clouds its garment
and wrapped it in thick darkness,
10
when I fixed limits for it
and set its doors and bars in place,
11
when I said, ‘This far you may come and no farther;
here is where your proud waves halt’?

12
“Have you ever given orders to the morning,
or shown the dawn its place,
13
that it might take the earth by the edges
and shake the wicked out of it?
14
The earth takes shape like clay under a seal;
its features stand out like those of a garment.
15
The wicked are denied their light,
and their upraised arm is broken.

16
“Have you journeyed to the springs of the sea
or walked in the recesses of the deep?
17
Have the gates of death been shown to you?
Have you seen the gates of the deepest darkness?
18
Have you comprehended the vast expanses of the earth?
Tell me, if you know all this.

19
“What is the way to the abode of light?
And where does darkness reside?
20
Can you take them to their places?
Do you know the paths to their dwellings?
21
Surely you know, for you were already born!
You have lived so many years!

22
“Have you entered the storehouses of the snow
or seen the storehouses of the hail,
23
which I reserve for times of trouble,
for days of war and battle?
24
What is the way to the place where the lightning is dispersed,
or the place where the east winds are scattered over the earth?
25
Who cuts a channel for the torrents of rain,
and a path for the thunderstorm,
26
to water a land where no one lives,
an uninhabited desert,
27
to satisfy a desolate wasteland
and make it sprout with grass?
28
Does the rain have a father?
Who fathers the drops of dew?
29
From whose womb comes the ice?
Who gives birth to the frost from the heavens
30
when the waters become hard as stone,
when the surface of the deep is frozen?

31
“Can you bind the chains[b] of the Pleiades?
Can you loosen Orion’s belt?
32
Can you bring forth the constellations in their seasons[c]
or lead out the Bear[d] with its cubs?
33
Do you know the laws of the heavens?
Can you set up God’s[e] dominion over the earth?

34
“Can you raise your voice to the clouds
and cover yourself with a flood of water?
35
Do you send the lightning bolts on their way?
Do they report to you, ‘Here we are’?
36
Who gives the ibis wisdom[f]
or gives the rooster understanding?[g]
37
Who has the wisdom to count the clouds?
Who can tip over the water jars of the heavens
38
when the dust becomes hard
and the clods of earth stick together?

39
“Do you hunt the prey for the lioness
and satisfy the hunger of the lions
40
when they crouch in their dens
or lie in wait in a thicket?
41
Who provides food for the raven
when its young cry out to God
and wander about for lack of food?

39 “Do you know when the mountain goats give birth?
Do you watch when the doe bears her fawn?
2
Do you count the months till they bear?
Do you know the time they give birth?
3
They crouch down and bring forth their young;
their labor pains are ended.
4
Their young thrive and grow strong in the wilds;
they leave and do not return.

5
“Who let the wild donkey go free?
Who untied its ropes?
6
I gave it the wasteland as its home,
the salt flats as its habitat.
7
It laughs at the commotion in the town;
it does not hear a driver’s shout.
8
It ranges the hills for its pasture
and searches for any green thing.

9
“Will the wild ox consent to serve you?
Will it stay by your manger at night?
10
Can you hold it to the furrow with a harness?
Will it till the valleys behind you?
11
Will you rely on it for its great strength?
Will you leave your heavy work to it?
12
Can you trust it to haul in your grain
and bring it to your threshing floor?

13
“The wings of the ostrich flap joyfully,
though they cannot compare
with the wings and feathers of the stork.
14
She lays her eggs on the ground
and lets them warm in the sand,
15
unmindful that a foot may crush them,
that some wild animal may trample them.
16
She treats her young harshly, as if they were not hers;
she cares not that her labor was in vain,
17
for God did not endow her with wisdom
or give her a share of good sense.
18
Yet when she spreads her feathers to run,
she laughs at horse and rider.

19
“Do you give the horse its strength
or clothe its neck with a flowing mane?
20
Do you make it leap like a locust,
striking terror with its proud snorting?
21
It paws fiercely, rejoicing in its strength,
and charges into the fray.
22
It laughs at fear, afraid of nothing;
it does not shy away from the sword.
23
The quiver rattles against its side,
along with the flashing spear and lance.
24
In frenzied excitement it eats up the ground;
it cannot stand still when the trumpet sounds.
25
At the blast of the trumpet it snorts, ‘Aha!’
It catches the scent of battle from afar,
the shout of commanders and the battle cry.

26
“Does the hawk take flight by your wisdom
and spread its wings toward the south?
27
Does the eagle soar at your command
and build its nest on high?
28
It dwells on a cliff and stays there at night;
a rocky crag is its stronghold.
29
From there it looks for food;
its eyes detect it from afar.
30
Its young ones feast on blood,
and where the slain are, there it is.”

40 The Lord said to Job:

2
“Will the one who contends with the Almighty correct him?
Let him who accuses God answer him!”

3 Then Job answered the Lord:

4
“I am unworthy—how can I reply to you?
I put my hand over my mouth.
5
I spoke once, but I have no answer—
twice, but I will say no more.”

6 Then the Lord spoke to Job out of the storm:

7
“Brace yourself like a man;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.

8
“Would you discredit my justice?
Would you condemn me to justify yourself?
9
Do you have an arm like God’s,
and can your voice thunder like his?
10
Then adorn yourself with glory and splendor,
and clothe yourself in honor and majesty.
11
Unleash the fury of your wrath,
look at all who are proud and bring them low,
12
look at all who are proud and humble them,
crush the wicked where they stand.
13
Bury them all in the dust together;
shroud their faces in the grave.
14
Then I myself will admit to you
that your own right hand can save you.

15
“Look at Behemoth,
which I made along with you
and which feeds on grass like an ox.
16
What strength it has in its loins,
what power in the muscles of its belly!
17
Its tail sways like a cedar;
the sinews of its thighs are close-knit.
18
Its bones are tubes of bronze,
its limbs like rods of iron.
19
It ranks first among the works of God,
yet its Maker can approach it with his sword.
20
The hills bring it their produce,
and all the wild animals play nearby.
21
Under the lotus plants it lies,
hidden among the reeds in the marsh.
22
The lotuses conceal it in their shadow;
the poplars by the stream surround it.
23
A raging river does not alarm it;
it is secure, though the Jordan should surge against its mouth.
24
Can anyone capture it by the eyes,
or trap it and pierce its nose?
TheWildEcho · 56-60, M Best Comment
Every time I look up and see Orion and the Pleiades I think about God creating them and how He names them in the Bible.
It sounds like the creation was a very joyous event!!
This message was deleted by its author.
This message was deleted by its author.
GodSpeed63 · 61-69, M
@Carazaa It was not my intention to take one person's answer over another. They are all good answers. TheWildEcho's was the best at the time, is all.

newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
Torturing some poor innocent simply to make a point, exterminating his family, and then expecting him to adore you because you stop torturing him? So much for ethics and empathy.

If you're going to copy-paste your entire collection of Bronze-Age Middle-Eastern goat herders' myths, could you perhaps skip to the bit where seven-headed dragons wearing crowns fly through the sky with prostitutes on their backs?

That sounds much more fun!
newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
@Bushranger [quote]laying a foundation and cornerstone of a free floating spheroid[/quote]

Yup, those goat-herders didn't have much of a clue, did they!

[quote]On what were its footings set[/quote]

We now know (courtesy of Einstein) that [i]there cannot be a footing[/i], because any chosen point would be merely relative to all other possible chosen points. The Earth is falling towards the Sun... and will never get there

[quote]or who laid its cornerstone[/quote]

There are corners on an oblate spheroid?

Really? That's like asking which way is south if you're standing at the South Pole
newjaninev2 · 56-60, F
@Bushranger It's quite remarkable that such a poorly-drawn character would be presented as having any sort of credibility... even in a Harry Potter novel.

Its self-aggrandising rhetoric in this copy-paste merely demonstrate abject ignorance of:
cosmology
non-Euclidian geometry
evolution
plate tectonics
meteorology
zoology...

...the list goes on, but I'm too bored to finish it.

Goat-herder myths... in this particular case woven around a tale of self-centred sadism and heartless infanticide.

Quite disgusting, really.
Bushranger · 70-79, M
@newjaninev2 A string line would indeed follow a Great Circle, however, to mark the circumference from the center would require a straight line. So I'm at least giving them that possibility. But that would mean a line of around 6,000 km. You'd never get the dip out of it so it wouldn't be a perfect measurement and wasn't God's creation initially perfect? Mind you, if it included the knowledge of sin and evil, then its perfection would need to be questioned.

As a story to explain why they should have worshipped God, it's not too bad. As a factual indication of creation, it is garbage.
Sicarium · 46-50, M
False premise. Being skeptical doesn't mean you have any answers, it means you don't blindly accept answers or go on nothing but faith.

If you want me to believe, it's up to you put forward rational arguments.
GodSpeed63 · 61-69, M
@Harriet03 [quote]He must of been drunk! 1000s of contradictions.[/quote]

The display of the skeptic's ignorance.
Harriet03 · 41-45, F
@GodSpeed63 Troll some other site!
Sicarium · 46-50, M
@Harriet03 You're making skeptics look like baboons. You're the one being a troll here. Please stop.
Harriet03 · 41-45, F
[image deleted]
suzie1960 · 61-69, F
@GodSpeed63 Not at all. If you had any evidence you would actually present it. Instead you just avoid the question or lie saying you have presented evidence.
GodSpeed63 · 61-69, M
@suzie1960 [quote]If you had any evidence you would actually present it.[/quote]

Do not answer a fool according to his folly, in this case, her folly lest you also be like her (Proverbs 26:4). I'll be praying for you, Suzie Q.
suzie1960 · 61-69, F
@GodSpeed63 Thank you for proving my point once again. Instead of presenting the evidence you falsely claim to have, you just avoided addressing the issue. Exactly as I prophesied. :)
nedkelly · 61-69, M
Wiseacre · F
This is waaaaay too long!
GodSpeed63 · 61-69, M
@Wiseacre Like I said, just answer them one at a time and take your time with it.
suzie1960 · 61-69, F
Already answered. If you didn't understand the first time, there no point my repeating it now.
Bushranger · 70-79, M
@hippyjoe1955 And the definition you would use for yourself would be 1.b I take it. Part three,as SimplyAtheist points out could be used to define anything as a religion. So, technically, a military system could be defined as a religion with that definition as it relies on scrupulous conformity.

I will accept your definition for the purpose of this discussion, but I will point out that I prefer to use source material from my own country when possible. As such, the definition of religion that I would ascribe to is slightly different to yours.
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@Bushranger I have never denied I follow a religion. Just a different one than you.
Bushranger · 70-79, M
@hippyjoe1955 Ok, Joe, not a bad joke, but you still need to work on your punchline.
our actions have repurcussions
we think we are smart/we know nothing
He was there in the beginning
he considered everything carefully
and He wasn't alone ..neither are we
we are infants in our understanding
he placed restraint on the tides
seasons come and go...he made it so
He made everything/things we'd never even think of to be important
He didn't make it all for the wicked and will cast them off
He is holding the planets in place
provides everything
humble yourself to his glory
CookieLuvsBunny · 31-35, F
The book of Job is really a terrible work. It is a parable I know, but how it made itself into canonized scripture is beyond me.
God makes a bar bet with Satan and in order to win kills all ten of Job's children and tortures poor Job mercilessly. Then, when Job questions him, God throws a tantrum and then blames Satan for his actions.
The story makes God look petty and gullible
Bandit2398 · 51-55, M
Here’s a few questions for the Christians.
The author of Job claimed these questions came from god. Why should job or anyone believe him?
Why should we believe anything in the book of job actually happned? How did the aurthor know any of this happened? How did the author know Satan had the conversations with god that was described?
curiosi · 61-69, F
I remember when I first read it, thinking "Wow cold". Poor Job is in agony and that's the response?? I have come to believe it is a call to Job to not worry, God is saying "I got this, you just need to trust in me".
Bandit2398 · 51-55, M
Instead of god saying “I got this, you just need to trust me.” Why not prove he’s trustworthy by not letting such horrible things happen to job? Losing your kids is the most horrible pain there is and getting more doesn’t make the pain go away.
Your god let a lot of horrible things happen to this man to prove a point to Satan. Your god is very evil. @curiosi
SatanBurger · 36-40, F
A lot of those questions are metaphorical and for the ones that are not, there's no way to answer something for an era I wasn't born in such as the first question asking where I was, which I would have answered "not born yet" 🤷‍♀️

For the more physical questions where it's implying God did some physical action, you can counter those by giving its scientific counter part for which some of those things were gone over in elementary school.

More so how would we be able to fly in airplanes, that sure isn't in the Bible :)
Carazaa · F
I could not answer or understand any of the wonders God made only that He saved me, and I can't wait to see Jesus coming through the clouds! Oh how I am waiting for that day. But he is still saving our loved ones praise God. And thank you so much for witnessing. Who knows someone's child, or brother, or Mom can be reading and turn to the Lord from despair to joy! There is nothing more than witnessing in these last days. The world is hurting and needs Jesus so badly.
ChipmunkErnie · 70-79, M
Is there a Cliff Notes version of this?
Carazaa · F
"If I speak in the tongues of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal." I am still upset how you as a Christian post your bible verses, but have no love! As a Christian I believe we need to love people, otherwise you are not witnessing, infact, you do the opposite.
JaggedLittlePill · 46-50, F
This is just a bunch of jibberish that really makes very little sense, you aren't doing yourself any favors here.
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