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Is mathematics dicovered or invented? [Spirituality & Religion]

ColonelFlytrap · 61-69, M
Discovered. Here before, here after.
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@ButterFly2023 Our universe may also be abstract, or a simulation, etc. But 1 + 1 will equal 2 in any universe, even ones where a concept of a distinct entity is impossible, and addition isn't useful.

It's not a human perspective at all, it's just the nature of a self-referential logic system. Mathematics is wrapped in on itself - and its relevance to the outside universe is mostly incidental.
ButterFly2023 · 18-21, M
QS: I tend to believe we are a mathematical construct, we exist in some formula that has always been around, from our perspective it doesn't seem like it though. I agree self referential systems are ill defined (at best), trouble is though we live here and we are always defining everything. However because of this we can never really see what is going on, we are just an ant in a unbelievably large ant nest, trying to understand how it works. But you know, it's fun trying to get on top of the paradox : ) .
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@TuxedoMask [quote]I have no clue what you even said, sorry I’m not that word smart. But the big bang, that was a prefect accident. And how to sun isn’t close enough to hurt us. Gravity to keep us grounded. Trees that give us the oxygen to breath. Water to drink to keep us alive. All perfect accidents just for earth. Hm, fishy i say. :P[/quote]Those are observable phenomena, not mathematics. Math is a useful tool for analyzing things like that, but they're far from the same thing, and indeed, the relationship is rather indirect.

What I was saying was that our math is generally fairly divorced from physical reality - many of principles behind it cannot be represented in the physical world.

You also have to be conscious of the Anthropic principle - if the universe didn't luck out in this way, we wouldn't be here to notice how nice things turned out. And it's quite possible that in other universes - and in trillions of other star systems in our local universe too, things didn't quite pan out. There is nobody around to complain about that.
trackman11 · 61-69, M
discovered, but the tools of understanding mathematics and it's relevance are invented.
trackman11 · 61-69, M
@ButterFly2023 lol.. I will tell my youngest son that you said so. He loves math and it's one of my great joys to hear him and his older brother talk. I listen and learn enough to ask the right questions. You recall correctly. Math is a beautiful language and the universe is designed in patterns. I love nature and my boys have taught me another way to appreciate it.
ButterFly2023 · 18-21, M
Obviously I hate maths ; ). Have fun with your kids.
trackman11 · 61-69, M
@ButterFly2023 sounds good... and if you hate math, hopefully you can avoid it in the future. :)
Yeah, I feel the same. If one and one is two, then it always has been. So discovery. So did Newton INVENT calculus or did he just find it lying around under the apple and 'splain it to us?

Not that anyone's ever explained calculus to me to the point where I am satisfied I understand, but I am a trusting soul and believe people who say they do get it.
@ButterFly2023 I don't know about that and it's probably best I don't. I think mathematicians of any stripe are wizards and I'm okay with that.
ButterFly2023 · 18-21, M
LOL: I'll leave with a video, it's pretty anyway:
[youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PD2XgQOyCCk]
@ButterFly2023 Oh! So pretty. I don't know what it is, so I'm going to put it into mental storage under 'The Tail of the King Dragon.'

(I will go read about it before the night's over, because I just don't know when to leave well enough alone.)

Thank you. It's gorgeous and mysterious and I wish I thought I could leave it at that.
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ButterFly2023 · 18-21, M
@xxxxxx I like this.
SW-User
I think the rules and theories are discovered while the ways of representing it, dealing with it, and using it are invented
Xuan12 · 31-35, M
Mathematics are measurement tools. They're invented.
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@Xuan12 Invented, yes - but a priori true.
ButterFly2023 · 18-21, M
Planck length was always Planck length.
Xuan12 · 31-35, M
@ButterFly2023 maybe, but it's mathematical representation is in an arbitry design. Plank length on its own is just a quality of physics. You can discover the width of an acorn, but you must measure it with an invented system.
Quizzical · 46-50, M
That's a good point actually...
Quizzical · 46-50, M
@ButterFly2023 I understand why... It's the basis for everything really, so it's always been there
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@ButterFly2023 Not really current, per se - been with us since Plato's times.
ButterFly2023 · 18-21, M
Yeah perhaps. But everyone kind of gets it now and religious opinion is more under fire than ever so in my opinion it's jumped a few rungs.
revenant · F
both. maths are everywhere in the physical world but some have to observe and expend on it.
sighmeupforthat · 46-50, M
it sneaks up on us and pretended to be our friend. :/
ButterFly2023 · 18-21, M
LilFoot · F
Well Newton did create calculus to solve physics
ColonelFlytrap · 61-69, M
@LilFoot Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz independently invented calculus in the middle of the 1670s. And Newton did his work to prove the rules of gravity.
Autumn321 · 51-55, M
Invented as all was created to conceptualize things.
IAMMONARAHIMI · 36-40, F
Created but has been there for centuries 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️
Goralski · 51-55, M
Its all relative
ButterFly2023 · 18-21, M
@Goralski This answer reminds me of agnosticism.
Goralski · 51-55, M
@ButterFly2023 yeah that too
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Discovered, I would think. There were quantities of items and numerical values even before we knew how to define them.

 
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