What makes something a person? [Spirituality & Religion]

@Pikachu well that leaves out a lot of humans.

@ladycae

lol i don't think it does.

@Pikachu what about a child born with severe brain damage who is unable to perform anything. would stare if left next to a bowl of food. what about the elderly who can become so ill with Alzheimers and dementia?

@ladycae


Well i'd say that someone with dementia is still a person. They're just not the same person they used to be.
A brain damaged child who is a vegetable? Not sure that is a person, no.

But you'll agree that my definition is rather more inclusive than "is human" lol

[quote]But you'll agree that my definition is rather more inclusive than "is human" lol
[/quote]

as usual, we disagree lol. both the baby and the elderly are humans. your not sure a baby is a person but he is certainly a human

@ladycae

You're thinking too small. Look beyond earth into this functionally infinite universe. It's very likely that there are intelligent aliens out there. Are they people?

that is something no one knows at the moment. and will only be known when we actually encounter intelligent alien beings.

@ladycae

Sure. But why do we have to confine ourselves to what is known?
That's why i said my definition was more inclusive. Because it doesn't suffer from the bias of humanity being the only possible persons.

i'm not ruling it out but i live in today and will cross that bridge when i come to it. in my life i have to be centered on today just because of my circumstances. also, not all intelligent life may be humanoid. it could be machine based. When we get there it will cause a lot of ethical and cultural changes. but not before.

@ladycae

I guarantee you that alien intelligent life will be very different from ours. But that doesn't mean we can't consider the implications. We don't have to stop thinking just because we haven't yet been faced with the scenario.
Of course it's hypothetical but we don't have ignore it.

Let's talk about it. Consider lieutenant Spock. Not a human. But can you make the argument that he is not a person?

well yes in a televised star trek sci fi show most aliens are humanoid because gene Roddenberry decreed it so, but that is a far cry from what we may actually find out there. it could be a whole nother ball game entirely. they may not even be sentient much less persons. it likes my father insisting all ebe's had to be carbon-based. not really dad.

@ladycae

I'm asking you about a sentient alien race. Are they people?
I mean, you [i]can[/i] refuse to answer because it's hypothetical. But i don't really see how that gets us any further in the discussion.

@Pikachu i'm not refusing to answer. i am answering i don't know. there is nothing what so ever to base a decision on.

@ladycae

I've given you the basis to make a decision.
Supposing that we encounter an alien race that is sentient. Like in star trek or star wars or any sci-fi you care to name.
Supposing we meet an alien like that, is it a person?

Just because you don't like my answer it's still my answer.did you know that a robot has been given citizenship. is that a person?

@ladycae

I don't like that you're refusing to consider the question.
Saying "i don't know" is a cop out. What is preventing you from giving an answer?
You (presumably) know what you consider a person. You know that these aliens seem to exhibit the same characteristics of human persons.
What is preventing you from making that hypothetical judgement? I really don't get your hesitancy. It leads me to believe that you think only a human can be a person but can't articulate a good reason why that should be.

Have you ever noticed how often our discussion end with you telling me that you don't have to answer the question?

@ladycae

[quote] a robot has been given citizenship. is that a person?
[quote][/quote][/quote]

No. Because that is a novelty. A goof. The robot can't even pass a Turing, why should we think that it has the same qualities that we would consider a person?

because you ask questions i either can not or choose not to answer. this is the first time you said the life form was humanoid. if so perhaps personhood would be possible. but we don't know if they will be humanoid or like any species we have ever before considered. so saying i don't know is not only the best answer but also the only true answer i can give. you not accepting it is your problem. now if you ask the question an 8th time i'm out of here because you are not hearing me.

@ladycae

[quote] this is the first time you said the life form was humanoid[/quote]

What does humanoid have to do with it? Switch it to species 8472 from stark trek voyager. Not humanoid.

[quote] so saying i don't know is not only the best answer bjt also the only true answer i can give.[quote][/quote][/quote]

Nah dude. It's the only answer you can give if i asked you if aliens would be people. But i'm giving you a specific hypothetical example and for some reason you can't make a hypothetical judgement.

lol this is so weird. I don't know why it's so hard to get a straight answer out of you.

Let's get specific. Do you think that one must be human to be considered a person?

#9 i'm outta here

@ladycae

Sorry, did i not ask you a new question?
Is this another discussion that ends in you getting frustrated and running away?

@ladycae

*sigh*

Well, par for the course i guess.
Catch you later🙂👍

i am not frustrated and i am not running away. i just wish you would respect me enough to actually hear what i'm saying. since you can't i see no need to continue. convince me you actually have read and understood my answer and maybe i'll be back. you have a habit of asking the same question over and over in either the same way or with slight changes. that's boring. certainly, you can do better. in case you have not figured it out, i don't speculate on things i know nothing about.

@ladycae



I have read your answer. I truly don't understand it. I gave you a specific hypothetical scenario: is a non-human alien from star trek a person or not? and i honestly don't know why you can't give an answer based on that scenario. I really don't. It's not like it goes on your permanent record or anything lol
But i did ask you another question there in an effort to move the conversation along.

[quote] i don't speculate on things i know nothing about.[/quote]

Well that's not true. That's [i]exactly[/i] what you just did in our conversation about the soul. You speculated that the soul is housed in the brain or that brain damage hampers a brains ability to express a soul or that the soul is actually present in the whole body.

yes was an alien like the humanoids from a tv series and the situation was the same then yes. i didn't speculate anything about the soul i simply answered your idea that the attributes we give the soul are in the brain. might i remind you that you replied that a severely developmentally disabed child was not a person..i know about what the soul is and told you where i felt it perhaps resided but admitted i really didn't know. so no you really read my answers you just used them to once again try to trap me.