Would getting rid of Trump make America better for its citizens in material terms?

Yes he is loud and abysmal but his policy program (as Paul Krugman has said) is standard right Republican + corruption + incompetence. President Pence won't feed your children and President Clinton won't stop drone strikes or inequality. Its great to have a symbol to unite against and I agree with all the criticisms. If you want a progressive America, it needs more comprehensive change though.

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Ynotisay · M

Legislation is only going to change so much in America and there is no magic wand. That said, the uniting together against a common enemy has been obvious to me my entire adult life. And it was never more obvious then at the height of the recession. Except maybe now.

The enemy are those who have manipulated and created the rules to create a country in which 1% of Americans own the same amount of wealth as the other 99%. It's not rocket science.

And yet for some reason, tens of millions Americans continue to fight on BEHALF of the very people who are screwing them the most. They're told to blame the blacks, the browns, the dirty libs or whomever, and they do.

While Trump has ZERO legislative success to date, most everything he's done, including staffing, nominations and clearly his Executive Orders, is about one thing and that's creating a greater disparity in wealth. This game is intended to make the rich richer. That's not an opinion. It's a cold hard fact that, for whatever reason, some choose not to recognize. As long as they think a wall is going to be built they're on board.

I used to feel sorry for folks who were busting their asses and getting played by the very, very few at the top. As a Progressive I've never wanted ANY American playing by the rules to not get what they deserve. I feel a bit differently today when it comes to Trump supporters. I see them as being responsible for what's happening now and what will happen down the road. They were conned and now everyone has to pay for it.

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Fernie · F

@Ynotisay: we voted for legalizing recreational weed...yet..."they decided that they don't want that so instead of honoring our vote /opinion they will do what THEY want...the total opposite of democracy

Ynotisay · M

@Fernie: I just looked in to it. What I don't get is that the taxes were included in the ballot legislation. There MUST have been some loophole that allowed officials to jack up the taxes to a place where it would be cost-prohibtiive for some. In CA we actually voted "no" on legal weed in the previous bill because the loopholes became known and people were smart about it. Blows my mind that we're still battling over weed. Such a joke.

Burnley123 · 41-45, M

@Ynotisay: [quote]Historically, and DEFINITELY since Reagan,it's always been the Democrats who fight for the working class and the GOP fights for the corporate class. That's easily provable.[/quote]

The Democrats are to the left of the Republicans but my understanding is that the party moved to the right during the Reagan era, which resulted in Bill Clinton and acceptance of many of the tenants or Reagonomics. Like New Labour in Britain, it is a party that has cleaved to the centre, and a post-Reagan centre. Sanders and Warren being exceptions.

Fernie · F

how can ANYONE ever think for one second that this egomaniacal, narcissistic maniac will EVER understand the plight of the American people? He has never been poor..he has never worked a day in his life...never struggled for one second....how can ANYONE think he will help????

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Fernie · F

@Jackaloftheazuresand: I don't understand your comment....all I know is that this moron is going to kill people...he is a demon from hell

Fernie · F

@Jackaloftheazuresand: if you know then you know this moron is dangerous

Fernie · F

@Jackaloftheazuresand malignant narcissists do not struggle

RootinTootinHighFalutin · 36-40, F

HRC won't stop inequality?? She's fought for racial equality, gender equality, LGBT equality... She's fought inequality throughout her career.

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Fernie · F

@RootinTootinHighFalutin: how nice ...you support "controlled capitalism"....meanwhile.....capitalism/greed has gone awry!!!

Burnley123 · 41-45, M

@RootinTootinHighFalutin: [quote]A vote for Bernie, 3rd party or a protest vote was a selfish act and resulted in a disastrous presidency.[/quote]

You are talking about different things here. I would have voted for Bernie in the Democratic Primary had I been American but I would also have voted Hillary in the General Election to keep out Trump.

Its hard to say whether American is there or not. From Bernie's support it appears that millenials are moving in a leftward direction. Its the same with Corbyn's support in the UK. In addition, I believe that single payer has a majority of support in American opinion polls.

The difference between our opinions is about strategy more than values and as you say we can agree to disagree.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/06/23/public-support-for-single-payer-health-coverage-grows-driven-by-democrats/

RootinTootinHighFalutin · 36-40, F

@Fernie: Which is why I oppose unbridled capitalism, Smartass!!!

@Burnley123: Millennials may be [i]moving[/i] [i]closer[/i] to single payer healthcare, and I'm on board with it, but we're not there yet. Bernie helped Trump get elected. Yes, I digressed. 😑

Socialism can be at it's worst (China) to some of it's best (New Zealand, Denmark, Canada, etc.). I suppose it’s all in the morals of the governing bodies and the willing participation of their citizens. I actually support a mix of capitalism, but not completely unregulated, and allowing for unionization and including a socialistic safety net to cover services best publicly-funded, and to take care of those who can't find jobs, or whose jobs don't pay a living wage.

Northwest · M

Change is not likely to happen, for the next 6 years. The hillbillies who voted for Trump, will continue to make excused for him, the say way fascists made excuses for their dictators. The more reasonable people who voted for Trump, will be either crushed or "bought out". Marco Rubio had a price: phony sanctions on Cuba. Ted Cruz has a price: Cuba and oil and the list goes on.

This is especially true, if he manages to keep out the fresh blood (progressive, well educated immigrants).

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Ynotisay · M

@Burnley123: Woah. You're not an American? And you're speaking about American issues without having the context of living here? I didn't know that.
Sort of wish I hadn't taken the time to respond the way I did.
Hope you read what Northwest just shared. He's right on the nut.

Burnley123 · 41-45, M

@Northwest: [quote]Perhaps you get your ideas on what a hillbilly is from watching reruns of the Beverly Hillbillies[/quote]

Fair enough actually. I think I had you wrong and I apologise.

Northwest · M

@Burnley123: Unfortunately, this is partially why Hillary lost the election. The perception that the left is aloof and condescending. IQ is not something people can work hard on, and we're not all created equal.

The "accident of birth" is also something people cannot choose, but we can all co-exist in an egalitarian society.

The American left, has adopted the attitude "when they go low, we go high". While I truly believe that you get more flies with honey, than you do with vinegar, at some point, when you continue putting the honey out, and the only takers are yellow jackets, the only thing we're doing, is enabling the yellow jackets.

It's a fine balance, so I believe that we should have a selective approach, rooted in empathy, but fully aware that we're seen by the predators as sheep.

When I run into someone who is not a racist, misogynist, xenophobe asshole, dialog is my choice. When I run into someone who's attacking me, because I support "child slave colonies" on Mars, and they believe it, because they heard it on Thursday on the Alex Jones show (and you may think I'm making this up, but I am not), then I may not so patient.

TheRealDonaldTrumpMaga · 70-79, M

Would hiring an elephant to sit on your cheating wife, stop her from cheating? I won, get over it!

swirlie · 31-35, F

Yes, it would be better for all concerned if Trump resigned. I don't mean that he should be impeached, I just mean that he should do the right thing and resign, like Nixon did. Nixon resigned when his impeachment was imminent.

My opinion is not a focus on Trump's policy program or the Republican Party itself, versus the Democrats; it is actually about the wrong message Trump as a human being, is giving to the rest of the world about what America is all about as a nation of people. This wrong message includes the kind of obtuse, anti-social behavior of Trumps's that some Americans are strongly defending as being socially acceptable protocol, whenever Trump speaks or tweets his immediate thoughts.

Those Americans who support that Trump-style of behavioral dysfunction need also take a long look at resigning themselves from that same anti-social, condescending mentality that only keeps them very small in a very big world... or at least keep it to themselves and remain in complete silence.

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