For men who are pro life: what would you say to being told that you don't have a right over your own body? Because that's what you're telling women.

@Jake966 Vasectomies are reversible, why not have one & then reverse it when you're ready to be a father?

Or am I telling you what to do with your body? 🤔

@Harriet03 I would have one if I didn’t want children but I do want children , tubulars are reversible too !

@Jake966

And that was their choice.
And choice is what matters.

One of the ways to deal with an unwanted pregnancy is to abort.
And that must be the woman's choice too.

Under what circumstances would you as a man agree that another person had a right to your body?

@Jake966 The responsibility is 50/50, not just the woman's, that's the point!!

@Harriet03 correct ! If a pregnancy comes about from a man and woman having sex then they should BOTH take the responsibility and care for the child or give it to someone who will care for it . Don’t kill it because of your own selfishness

@Jake966

[quote]If a pregnancy comes about from a man and woman having sex then they should BOTH take the responsibility [/quote]

What you're missing here, what men always seem to miss is that while TWO people are responsible for the pregnancy only ONE of them has to give their body up to it.

Do you or do you not think that bodily autonomy is the right of any person?

@Pikachu I don’t look at it as giving up her body , to me is more like an experience not a curse

@Jake966

[quote], to me is more like an experience[/quote]

Oh yes? To you, a man it's more like summer camp or travelling abroad?

Think about it for a moment from a woman's perspective. Do you think it would be an "experience" to be forced against your will to have drastic and often permanent changes happen to your body? Would it just be kind of a cool time to be forced into 9 months of discomfort, sickness, mental yo-yoing and finally an excruciating delivery?

Can you imagine how a woman, not wanting to put herself through that, especially if she doesn't even want a baby would indeed consider that a curse?


And i am interested in your answer to this question as well: Do you or do you not think that bodily autonomy is the right of any person?

@Pikachu going back to my original statement , a couple has the right to have sex or not , if they chose to they need to be prepared to deal with the consequences of their actions . To terminate an innocent life is murder whether born or preborn

@Pikachua few years ago a girl gave birth in a restroom and disposed of her full term baby in a dumpster , unfortunately the baby died , the girl was charged and convicted of murder . What was the difference between an abortion , full term , or her killing the baby like that ? Now you think carefully about your response

@Jake966

And one of the ways to deal with it is an abortion.

Now i'm finding it a bit rude that you're pretending that i have not asked you a question.
If you find yourself unwilling or unable to answer it then please say so but don't continue to act as if the question has not been asked.
Thanks you.

@Pikachu I answered it

@Jake966

[quote]What was the difference between an abortion , full term , or her killing the baby like that ?[/quote]

Simple.
The clearest and most unequivocal cut off for when a baby is considered a person with rights is after it's been born.
At that point it has the rights and protections of any other person. By failing to provide the necessities of life to the born human infant, she was commiting homicide or at best negligent homicide.

@Jake966

[quote]I answered it[/quote]

Beg pardon but no you didn't.
You said first that you don't consider forcing a woman to carry a pregnancy to term to be a violation of her bodily autonomy and then said she had the right to have sex or not.

It's a yes or no question.
Anything you say after that by way of qualification is fine but do please answer the question directly:

Do you or do you not think that bodily autonomy is the right of any person?

@Pikachu I also testified as an expert witness in an accident that claimed the lives of a woman and her unborn baby . The plaintiff stated that not only was the life of the woman cut short but the BABY she was carrying was KILLED also . The court recognized the death of the child and granted a settlement for both lives lost

@Jake966

Which of course recognizes the fact that the woman (presumably) intended to deliver that baby. It was a recognition of the taking a child she intended to have and (depending on the stage of the fetal development) in no way makes the judgement that the fetus was a person.

@Pikachu no one has control over their autonomy , we all change

@Jake966

Um...can you clarify and elaborate on your meaning there?
Are you saying that you don't have a right to decide what to do with your own body because "we all change"?

@Pikachu you asked about autonomy and having control over it , none of us have control over that . I would love to be thinner and lighter and I try and it doesn’t take place

@Jake966

More leg lifts and more fork put downs will help you be thinner and lighter😉
lol but seriously, i feel at this point a clarification of terms is in order.

Do you understand what i mean when i say right to bodily autonomy? Perhaps you've heard it called bodily integrity?
It don't mean that you have perfect control over your weight or hair loss or health.
It refers to the right to have full control over one's body and be able to freely make choices concerning their body and not being forced to let [i]others[/i] make choices concerning their body.

@Pikachu she made the choice to have sex and IF she didn’t consider the consequences of her actions , that’s irresponsible

@Jake966

Well at least you consider abortion a legitimate option in the case of rape.

So if you make the choice to text and drive and we get in an accident and i need one of your kidneys to survive, do i have the right to [i]force[/i] you to accept the consequences of your actions and make you give me your kidney?

Or would you recognize that as a violation of your bodily autonomy?

@Pikachu I know a woman who was raped and stabbed during the rape because the sick SOB got off on it and she got pregnant as a result and went full term . The child was adopted by a deserving couple , she does not want the child to ever know who she is , she doesn’t want any contact but the child lived . No I don’t believe in abortion due to rape , don’t twist my words !!!!!!! I’m done chatting with you , ABORTION IS MURDER !

@Jake966

And that was her choice. That was her exercising her own bodily autonomy.
[i]
So do you or do you not consider rape a legitimate reason for abortion?

So if you make the choice to text and drive and we get in an accident and i need one of your kidneys to survive, do i have the right to force you to accept the consequences of your actions and make you give me your kidney?[/i]

Or would you recognize that as a violation of your bodily autonomy?

@Jake966

Oh sorry, i hadn't seen the edit that you were done talking to me.

[quote] No I don’t believe in abortion due to rape , don’t twist my words [/quote]

I wasn't trying to twist your words, merely make sure of your position.
So if you don't consider rape to be a reasonable condition under which to abort then DO NOT BRING UP REPONSABILITY as if you actually thought that was the reason a woman should be required to carry a pregnancy to term.
That makes you a hypocrite.

But your reluctance to respond to the scenario i raised already betrayed the fact that responsibility is not the issue in your mind.
You understand that in that instance it would be a VIOLATION of your bodily autonomy, it's just that you're happy to impose that violation on a woman.

[i]Now[/i], we're done talking😉