"The Right To Choose...Unless You Don't Agree With Us!"

@lucyyy Brilliant. Let me please reference you to my posting Rectification of Names in which I write about no longer playing the infanticidists word games.

As for all the people here except windinhishair who wrote in opposition NOT ONE of them understand English well enough to answer the Question. One even invented a double miscarriage his wife supposedly had then ...I guess he FORGOT TO MENTION THAT the other two times we have argued this topic...then used this cheap and disgusting trick to say I thought they were mass murders. The absolute non-sequitur, the absolute fatuousness and plain stupidity of that comment by "CountScofula" was so beyond belief I copied it to include on my blog about abortion advocates and the extremes they will go to win their arguments.

@CountScrofula I so disagree with you. God gives life with conception and he takes life away. As long as it is totally in Gods hands it is not murder nor manslaughter. Anytime a human gets rid of life it is murder. If God wants your conception to live it will be a beautiful human being born.

@LTKISS Alright. What about when fertility clinics create five or six viable embryos to help get someone pregnant, and toss out all but one? Are those murder?

@CountScrofula I sure would not want to be the one doing that. I would consider that murder. We as men are trying to play God. Let God does his own work. If he does not want you to have kids there is a reason. Read the Bible there are some women in there that were barren and then conceived. No fertility clinics messing with embryos and things.

@Abrienda I understand why people got upset with the words you used, I disagree with the terminology myself but I know that starting a conversation about it will lead nowhere, that's why I just responded to the main concern here. My advice is read the laws and once you know them you can take the actions you wish. I know for one that healthcare providers do have the rights you mentioned. I can put myself in your situation (not on abortion, but other procedures which I would most probably decline to perform).

@HannibalAteMeOut If people cannot handle what others believe then they ought to be doing something else with their time.

If I believe a "clump of cells" (I should not get offended or upset by that, correct?)is a human life - heart beat at 8 weeks - and that human life is an infant, and is killed purely by choice not necessity, what would you have me call it?

I am not going to make it easier for people to ignore what they really advocate anymore than I would call Auschwitz a "German Built Resettlement Center For Jews" instead of a Nazi death camp.

@HannibalAteMeOut Exactly! There are more than enough willing to do this without trying to force it on those that want no part of it! However Abrienda called it like she sees it and I agree with her. A beating heart = life!

@luckranger71 That's the best you have (I am sure I am not the only woman - or man? - who has said that to you)?

You have an inability to either read carefully or understand what someone reads to you. Nor do you take the time to learn who it is you are trying to insult. If you had then you would not have just made such an ass out of yourself.

Finally you do not respond to the Question asked by the person posting it though asked many times to do so. That makes you a troll.

Trolls are deleted.

Please respond to the Question or stay out.

@luckranger71 What a truly moronic reply. Also learn how to spell "INFANTICIDE" if you want you moronic replies to look less moronic.

@luckranger71 okay, okay... First let me weigh in that 1) Abortion is murder! 2)There was a time that doctor and mother could be prosecuted for such an act. However the reason for the post is [b]NOT[/b] about if it is moral or not. It is about affording healthcare personnel the right to abide by their own consciences, and their “right to choose”! And if participants in this procedure have the right to choose to get rid of a [b]life[/b ]they created, shouldn’t healthcare providers have the same right to choose if they want to participate in such a procedure? Why shouldn’t they be able to live by their own conscience? There are more than enough people in healthcare that could care less one way or the other, and will gladly assist. The thing is [b]some[/b] ‘hating liberals’ want to force us to do it their way just like everything else. You just want to push your crappy agenda onto us and defile our conscience like you do your own. This country has the freedom of religion which allows one the right to practice whatever religion one chooses. We have laws in place to protect people when their religion comes into question such as we do not force parents to vaccinate their children when it is against their religion nor do we force Jehovah’s witnesses to receive blood transfusions even when they are in life threatening situations, and etc...You guys just never stop with the pushing “in your face... do it our way crap”. @Abrienda I’ll answer your question. [b]Yes, you should have the right to choose to assist in this.[/b] Trump is doing the right thing and he does have the decency to try to protect healthcare workers.

@Abrienda Some people have abortions like it’s the form of birth control they use...

@SW-User And THAT is what you were told "would never happen"> Maybe some of these people who call me a "zealot" (I am sure they have now idea where that word came from) could name me which Democrat idol said abortion must be "safe, available and RARE." 60 million plus babies killed is not 'rare" but then these fanatics never wanted that anyway.

@Abrienda exactly

I do not oppose religion. Far from it. I do oppose religious exemption for reasons I've already articulated. Unless those exemptions are limited, you open up the potential for people to be legally free to refuse service to or discriminate against blacks, or Muslims, or anyone else their religion opposes.

The right to a legal abortion has been upheld by the Supreme Court. Can it be taken away? Yes, if the Court so rules. But the right to a legal abortion exists at present. Your refusal to provide these services may not harm anyone in most cases, but when states are making it hard or impossible to obtain legal abortion services, and you are the only option, you DO harm others.

Your First Amendment right doesn't trump all other rights. It has limits. And it conflicts with a woman's right to choose. This is what the Court has to decide.

I would like to see abortion rare but available as an option, because I will not decide someone's reproductive rights. I would like to see you able to freely exercise your religion. But the solution isn't a simple one and, as pointed out, has problems of its own.

@windinhishair I never said abortion should not be available. I am asking for the right not to engage it. Nor is required I be made to as there are many practitioners of infanticide to choose from, if that is "inconvenient" for someone, that is life. My religious freedom is more important than her convenience.

In a society that truly respected "the right of a woman to choose" you would respect my right "as a woman" to not be "restricted" to only two choices: either engage in infanticide or seek another profession, as you so snarkily suggested I could do.

It is a pity for you that you lack the moral awareness to see the fascistic impulse behind such a suggestion, a pity but far from unusual on the left which is why people like yourself are the true advocates of totalitarianism in the world today.

Whether you wish to acknowledge that or not is irrelevant. It is as it is.

The real pity is your complete and utter inability to accept that your right to practice your religion as you see fit does not trump all other rights by all other people. It only highlights your lack of moral character. Not surprising, but sad nonetheless.

The reality is that in the vast majority of cases, your rights and the rights of a woman to have a safe, legal abortion can both be accommodated. Keep abortion legal and readily available, and there will be plenty of options that do not require you to compromise your personal religious beliefs.

@MorbidCynic It will be a snowy day in Hell when I need to take such advice from a semi-illiterate like you.

Lol @Abrienda

@MorbidCynic Laugh, clown, laugh.

@windinhishair Yes...in re-examining your posts have made valid argument - ones I consider wrong but "valid" none the less.

So then ..you are saying because a woman has a moral "right" to an elective operation that I believe is infanticide and I must be forced against my moral and religious beliefs to perform in it, even though she can legally seek out other places that will accommodate her? That my religious freedom is less important than her inconvenience?

There in fact is no "right" to an abortion in America but there is one to freedom of religion from government interference or force. Are you in favor of doing away with that right? Just because it suits your world view?

So I am in favor of abortion being legal though I oppose it...are you in favor of my religious beliefs being suppressed and violated? You I am sure worry about the "psychic trauma" of a woman being "forced to have a child she doesn't want"...are you also concerned over my trauma in committing what I believe us murder? Because let's be clear - SOMETHING is being killed, and that something was the exact same state you were in at one time.

If so then tell me... who is the real liberal here?

@Abrienda It isn't a liberal or conservative issue. It is a religious and moral issue, and there are valid arguments on both sides. It is obviously a difficult issue to address, or it would have been settled long ago. You raise a number of issues in your response, and I will respond to each one with some other thoughts to consider.

Accommodation is not always possible, even if it is in many or most cases, and exercising your right to not provide a service can force a woman to bear a child. This is the principle behind limiting the number of clinics in states, which would force some women to have their babies as they cannot afford to travel to the nearest clinic. Poor women may not be able to travel to clinics hundreds of miles away for a legal procedure. If legal abortion was widely available, your right to not provide service would be much less of an issue, and it is possible both of you could be accommodated.

You do have the right to seek and obtain a legal abortion in the US. You also have the right to practice your religion. But neither right is absolute. There are restrictions on both abortions and religions. For example, a devout Muslim cannot practice Sharia law, which conflicts with US law. Late term abortion is illegal in most cases, unless the mother's life is in danger.

I support your right to be able to practice your religion to the maximum extent practical, and I support a woman's right to choose and obtain a legal abortion. The two rights collide in cases where your denial of legal service in support of your religious beliefs would deprive a woman of her right to a legal medical procedure. I don't have all the answers, but I believe that if every woman who desires an abortion could obtain one from someone else, your religious beliefs could be accommodated as well. Ideally, neither one should supercede the other. But we live in a world of grey, not black and white.

There are other issues as well that I haven't touched on that I will throw out for consideration. Does your role of a medical professional and responsibility to healing others allow you to choose who to provide service to? If it extends to abortion, could it also extend to refusing service to the LGBQT community? To blacks and Hispanics? To Muslims? And if religious freedom is extended, as is happening now, how far does it extend? Could certain Muslim sects legally practice honor killings?

Just a few late afternoon thoughts on a difficult topic.

@windinhishair I used liberal in the small 'l' sense of the word. And I appreciate your thoughtful, reasonable tone.

@MorbidCynic this is true, but i like the odds of 98% effectiveness.

But abortion helps correct mistakes like me 🤔 there are so many @lostinthesupermarket

@MorbidCynic but still, only 2 out of every 100 statistically speaking, save a lot of people a lot of time

@Robynthebeautiful maybe they'll die and we won't have to worry about that person getting abortions anymore.

Besides deaths from abortions were made up of at least 30% legal ones and yearly deaths were only 63

@Robynthebeautiful Legality or illegality is not about making bad acts "stop" but making society livable. Laws against theft, rape and murder hasn't made them "stop", so are you suggesting we not have those laws, either.

And that was not the Question asked and which you don't seem to be able to understand...idiot.

@Abrienda of course.

@SW-User Then your question to me makes no sense unless you never heard of Planned Parenthood or the ACLU, in which case I cannot help you further.

[@ok thanks.