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So i know politics is littered with national emergency threads at the moment but i'm still interested to know:

For those who think trump has made a good, wise and justified decision here, why do you think it was a good, wise and justified decision?

How do you feel about a president using a national emergency to bypass congress in order to achieve his political aims?
Would you be happy if a democratic president did the same?
SouthernBoxer · 31-35, M
It is justified. The border is a nation crisis and needs to be fixed as soon as possible. All these misinformed people are saying, "How could it be an emergency if he didn't have to do it?" That is taken out of context and false. He said he didn't have to speed up the process, but he wanted to. He did NOT say he didn't have to declare this an emergency but he wanted to. He didn't have to speed it up, but he wanted to. Protecting and securing the border will make the country safer and allow us to move onto other problems.

Edit- If a Democratic President wants to do the same thing for a legitimate issue, there is no problem with that. The so called "emergency" of healthcare and firearms are not legitimate.
jackjjackson · 61-69, M
Looks like you boys solved the worlds problems. Impressive. 🙄 @QuixoticSoul
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@jackjjackson Hey, it was a slow night 🤷‍♂️
jackjjackson · 61-69, M
Slow is a compliment to you boys. @QuixoticSoul
Lindaisfun · 26-30, F
The wall is necessary for national security. The Dems supported a wall and many voted portions of the wall under Obama. But they blindly hate Trump and oppose everything on his agenda. So Trump has to put the American people first and build the wall. He tried to get it though congress. But they fought him every step of the way. So he has to find other means.
@HerKing

lol oh my god.
His supporters are exercising full on 1984 doublethink
HerKing · 61-69, M
@Pikachu One of his more recent humdingers was going to a red state (I think Alabama) and told his devoted throng that he wanted Mercedes and BMW to stop selling cars in the USA...guess which German car makers have plants in AL, one of which employs 10000 Americans?
@HerKing

lol god damnit trump.
The sad part is that it makes literally no difference to his base.
marriedplus3 · 31-35, M
This is the right decision because democrats are very very stupid people. It is a fact that illegal immigrants kill Americans every year. It’s a fact that drugs come across the border. Human trafficking and rape is real. People with just a little common sense knows this is a real emergency. So because I’m smart I agree with it
SimplyTracie · 26-30, F
@SW-User How so?
SW-User
SW-User
@SimplyTracie no, not yours. The thought that the Wall was to shunt people off to ports of entry is defeating the purpose of the WALL.
Lion1776 · 51-55, M
This is not a national emergency. 9/11 was a national emergency. Mass murders in the United states happen from our own people. You very rarely hear about a foreigner doing mass murder. Drugs will come here with or without the wall.
PeachesGR · 61-69, F
@Lion1776 ... But wouldn't it be nice if it were that simple? Lol
Platoscave · F
@Lion1776 The refugees and illegals are more careful in their behavior here.

For obvious reasons. The facts prove it too. They commit LESS crime than the rest of us.

But you know how people are when they WANT to believe something.

And I happen to know that most drugs come here legally in planes. They are just not caught. They can afford the coverup.

The refugees can't afford to try to survive anymore anywhere...without risking their very lives.

But you know how life is.
Crushingly unfair.
jackjjackson · 61-69, M
President Obama did to make the now defunct Iran deal. So what’s easier getting a decent bill through a Congress with. 10% approproval rating or issuing an EO, having it run through the ninth circuit clown van and it being confirmed by the Supreme Court? I suspect option 2 which is what happened with the travel ban.

Are things supposed to work this way? A good question for the Congress supposedly representing US in DC.
jackjjackson · 61-69, M
I believe that additional barriers as per the impartial on the ground border experts are a part of a good border security package. I dint believe we need a 80’ soldi concrete wall from sea to shining sea. @Pikachu
jackjjackson · 61-69, M
Parsing again. “Infrastructure” is typical minimalization. BTW 57 emergency orders have been issues since 2000 including a large number by Obama. It’s just as routine as Ea’s EO’s, etc. @QuixoticSoul
SW-User
@jackjjackson as it is, that's actually the way it works. Thats checks and balances working there. That long winded process is literally the most Constitutional way of verification of legality.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
Some of the Trumpster are saying Obama did the same but he didn't. You can question the ethics of Executive orders but what Trump is doing is new. He's using a different procedure to get funding from the military budget to pay for his wall.

There is no national emergency because border crossings are not epidemic and have gone down. The other arguments against the wall still apply such as its eneffectiveness to work even in its own terms, the waste of money and the fact that illegal immigrants in America do work that Americans won't.

So to clarify: the wall is an expensive and ineffective solution to an invented problem which is to be paid for by illegal and unconstitutional means.

This also sets a dangerous precident for the future if he gets away with it.
@Northwest

Fear mongering is lazy politics.
I find it [i]absolutely[/i] contemptuous.

I also find myself feeling badly for his base (which pisses me off) because I think he is taking advantage of their inability to draw a straight line - if you know what I mean?
JoeyFoxx · 51-55, M
His base has one valid point: Washington politics do not represent the needs of the people.

I don’t feel sorry for them.

I’m annoyed that those of us who know better are unable to collectively support candidates who can effectively represent us all, not just a sliver of special interests.

@toodlepip
HerKing · 61-69, M
@Northwest [quote]but I'm sure Trump understands that WWII is a little different from getting his wall.[/quote]

You're sure? I'm not. I think if you asked him about it, he'd claim he won the war and that the generals of the day thanked him for his leadership.
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jackjjackson · 61-69, M
I didn’t always agree with the substance of Obama’s EO’s but still agree with his ability to use them. @Pikachu
Pherick · 41-45, M
@canusernamebemyusername Yea he is TOTALLY a White Supremacist.
Pherick · 41-45, M
@JoeyFoxx LOL Holy shit, that chain email isn't even remotely believable. Don't they know you should base your dis-information in a bit of real information? Not change a number 2 to a 4000 .. thats just ... 🤦‍♂️
SW-User
If it was actually a national emergency.
SW-User
@Randy777 not in the mood for stupid rn. Poof! Block
Graylight · 51-55, F
@Randy777 Thus spoke the idiot.
PeachesGR · 61-69, F
@Graylight The I**** will appear very soon now... and will delete their post....
*Watch this space*
PeachesGR · 61-69, F
Yes, Pikachu, crossings are at a... what...30 year low? There is no emergency. You're more likely to win the lottery or get hit by lightning than to be hurt by an illegal. Hmm...you are even more likely to be hurt by an American than an illegal...("chew on that" for a while.) :)
SimplyTracie · 26-30, F
PeachesGR · 61-69, F
@SimplyTracie He often disagrees with himself...
*sigh
SimplyTracie · 26-30, F
@PeachesGR 😔 It’s his dementia. So sad.
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jackjjackson · 61-69, M
You’re right. HALF of Congress acted in the country’s best interest and the other half controlled by Dems acted in Dems best interest.

If you have been keeping up the Dems always go to the ninth circuit because it gives them better odds of winning at the District and Circuit courts. The should instead take it to a balanced circuit that would not simply rubber stamp the Dems. @HerKing
room101 · 51-55, M
@AgapeLove[i] "In Germany or Japan they would send in the fucking troops if there were a fraction of the people coming into their country illegally,....."[/i]

But Germany did not send in troops when ten of thousands Syrian refugees were coming into the country. They welcomed them in with open arms.

As for Japan, when was the last time that they had any kind of issue with migrants? Three hundred years ago?
OggggO · 36-40, M
@AgapeLove Your name is a lie.
I don't like it no matter the party as it is hyperbole.
Dadbod52 · 56-60, M
You have to stop he drugs from entering. But at the same time you just reduced the incarceration of drug dealers and granted amnesty. So what’s the emergency?
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@Dadbod52 Drugs overwhelmingly enter through legal border crossings anyway.
@Dadbod52

And maybe if a wall was going to stop or even significantly reduce the amount of drugs coming in, it might be worth building. But that just doesn't appear to be the case.
marriedplus3 · 31-35, M
I just really don’t give a damn what people think. If you don’t think this is a emergency your a very stupid person. Or your just simply not a American
marriedplus3 · 31-35, M
I guess your opinion is very different from mine @SW-User
OggggO · 36-40, M
@marriedplus3
[youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixi9_cciy8w]
SW-User
@marriedplus3 see above.
PeachesGR · 61-69, F
He's claiming the building is going nicely but it hasn't started yet.
Story telling? "Show us what has been built" should be a small request... for something so important.
PeachesGR · 61-69, F
...or: how do you feel about people who haven't let go of Hillary and/or Obama?
Hint: it called deflection...
SimplyTracie · 26-30, F
@PeachesGR True. The snowflakes know the blame game quite well.
SW-User
So, I chimed in, triggered the Reps, but I realized that I never actually answered the question.

So... my view is, it depends on the issue at of concern. Would I agree on this for a WALL? Fuck no. Its a vanity project. Would I agree on the issue being, say, healthcare? Again, no. That can be done via Congress.

I suppose it would depend solely on the issue. Party lines don't come into play for me. It's all about the policy.
PeachesGR · 61-69, F
When you have no other constructive point, use F*** over and over...j.s. Pffftt.
PeachesGR · 61-69, F
...my blocked button is almost down to just a nub.... lol
This message was deleted by its author.
SW-User
@PeachesGR be well, traveller.
PeachesGR · 61-69, F
Thank you, nocky!
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@MarmeeMarch Why??? Are you going to play the big man and report me, too, mardymarch???
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This message was deleted by the author of the main post.
SW-User
If a Democratic president declares a national emergency for climate change, every Republican should remember this moment.

(No, I don't agree with either).
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SW-User
@Randy777 RBG is going to live forever. You Ruth Bader believe it.
SW-User
@SW-User I hope she does. She's hella cool.
SW-User
I asked a similar question. It has happened before but that does not make it right. The wall isn't an emergency, the national debt is.
marriedplus3 · 31-35, M
Another thing Trump should do but won’t do. He can decide not to raise the debt ceiling @SW-User
SW-User
@marriedplus3 Clinton was the last president to actually seemingly care about the debt. I doubt we will have a president that will do anything with it in a long time.
marriedplus3 · 31-35, M
Your probably right @SW-User
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HerKing · 61-69, M
@Randy777 Still needs to be sold off...and the concomitant road to patrol alongside it... You know that right? So whose side will you be on? Landowner or the government (The same government the GOP like to tell everyone is too big).
PeachesGR · 61-69, F
....and: before the building starts, they'd have a lot of eminent domain cases to settle.
*It hasn't started yet.*
PeachesGR · 61-69, F
Yes, true! Like he didn't know any porn stars were paid...yup!
PeachesGR · 61-69, F
Hilarious!
There was no collusion... none! Ok, there was, but it's not a crime. :))
A national emergency is - a power outage on the Eastern seaboard / an army of Mexicans storming and entering the US / a weather disaster that destroys thousands of homes -
AceWarbringer · 36-40, M
The problem i see is the precedent this sets. Things not going your way? Declare an emergency and try to force it through.

But i also see his point too. He wants to get something everyone has supported at one point or another, but because "orange man bad" nobody on the Democrat side wants anything to do with it.
Northwest · M
Not very difficult to find. It’s in the Congressional record. In 2015, the Democrats, proposed a bill that allocated $5.7B for Border Security.

That means effective border security, comprising of electronic measures, drones, software, computers, border patrol officers, and yes, in some places, barriers. It did not include cement walls, because that is is the least effective way to monitor. Turns out smugglers love cement, because it hides their activities.

Mitch McConnell killed it. We don’t have money to waste, they said.

Democrats are for border security, but against hading Trump an $8B toy, just because he threw a tantrum.

But just like the darling of the white trash, Ann Coulter, said: the only emergency is that Trump is an idiot.


@AceWarbringer
AceWarbringer · 36-40, M
@Northwest i wouldn't call him an idiot. He's a damn smart man. Look at how he maneuvers and you have to respect his political intelligence.

Trump was a long shot who won. Never underestimate.

This is a pure political show. What happens if the long shot wins again?
Northwest · M
@AceWarbringer Ann Coulter us calling him idiot. I call him a con man. He, however, has no political intelligence, and you're mixing up the art of the con with political genius.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. The 2018 elections, indicated that the people, as in the majority, as in those who voted for House seats, no longer by Trump's con. His win in 2016, was about playing the Electoral Vote, not the majority game. He can only do that once.

The only ace up his sleeve, is the Evangelicals. They're not buying his shit, but he gave them two seats on the Supreme Court, so they will vote for him. My hope, is that enough people will open their eyes, and see that the Presidential elections, are not a single issue campaign.
nudistsueaz · 61-69, F
Yes, what been going on for the last forty years hasn't worked. Time to do something different.
OggggO · 36-40, M
@nudistsueaz Illegal crossings are lower than they’ve been at any time since the early seventies.

https://www.cbp.gov/sites/default/files/assets/documents/2017-Dec/BP%20Southwest%20Border%20Sector%20Apps%20FY1960%20-%20FY2017.pdf
HerKing · 61-69, M
It isn't an emergency. Who said so? Trump did...He said he didn't have to do it. Ergo, not an emergency.
PeachesGR · 61-69, F
Things are changing... getting much worse for "Him" now.....
*whistles*
Platoscave · F
He is not a democrat, that's why he gives himself permission.
He was chosen to be a brutal BUFFOON. Just like Hitler.

So we wouldn't think we have to take it all too seriously.

The emergency is our complaisance.
Joker · 36-40, M
Was it one of his promises to do as president? Yes? Well if the Dems dont allow it to happen then it is indeed a national emergency to the people.🤷‍♂️
@Joker

Why?
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nudistsueaz · 61-69, F
@Stereoguy You might feel different if you lived in Arizona.
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OggggO · 36-40, M
@nudistsueaz https://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/laurieroberts/2019/02/07/forget-trumps-border-wall-what-his-concertina-wire-nogales/2806020002/

Arizona disagrees.

https://tucson.com/news/local/nogales-city-council-calls-on-feds-to-remove-all-border/article_ad246ca8-2a7c-11e9-8de7-ab64b6199f2d.html
strongbow · 46-50, M
Why do you care, you're not even american
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SouthernBoxer · 31-35, M
You are all taking it out of context. Just pull up the clip and listen. lmfao
SimplyTracie · 26-30, F
@SouthernBoxer Well, he said, “I could do the wall over a longer period of time...”. Just admitting that he could take longer is literally admitting that there is no “emergency”.

I would imagine that an emergency requires urgent and swift action. As a matter of fact, if we were in imminent danger, he should have taken action before today. Yes? Like maybe two years ago?
SimplyTracie · 26-30, F
@nudistsueaz I have cousins living in Texas. They don’t care if it’s built or not.

 
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