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When will 'free-speech' defenders show some consistency?

Jordan Peterson and Dave Ruben are two members of the self-styled 'intellectual dark-web'. It's a collection mostly made up of right-wing internet celebrities whose main calling card is to defend freedom of expression from the encroaching power of 'post-modern neo-marxism'. To anyone who has ever read any Marx or anything by post-modernist writers; please forget what you know because for their purposes they mean any ideas which can be seen as culturally liberal. They see the strident progressivism of teenaged political activists and the pedantry of the Google HR department as part of the same 'Marxist' plot to overturn western civilisation.

Their latest noble crusade is against Patreon, the company which allows citizens to donate to their favourite political commentators. Patreon has recently de-platformed Carl Benjamin, AKA Sargon of Akad because he got into a (probably drunken) online argument with people in the alt-right and said they were acting like a bunch of n****rs. Tbh, I think Patreon was wrong to ban him though the whole issue is a bit ridiculous. However, it's much more likely that Patreon is trying to protect their brand image by enforcing standards of etiquette than it is for a business corporation to become 'Marxist' because they are inspired by Foucault and Derrida.

Meanwhile, a children's speech pathologist in Austin Texas has been barred from working in her school district because she refused to sign an oath saying that she would not engage in a boycott of Israeli goods. Whatever your opinion on the actions of the Israeli state or a boycott campaign, this is clearly political and an infringement on the rights of free expression. It's also somewhat alarming that publically employed workers can be forcefully mandated into taking a political stance by a government.

https://theintercept.com/2018/12/17/israel-texas-anti-bds-law/

In other news, the actual President of the United States threatens legal action against a comedy show because they take the piss out of him. He has also openly advocated control over the free press because he doesn't like their criticism. His inability to enforce these things does not forgive his intent.

The 'intellectual dark-web' and the rest of the right like to present themselves as defenders of 'edgy' and 'alternative' views when the actual substance of what they are defending is nothing more than the right to offend minority groups. Not offensively difficult political opinions, just the right to offend people. See Milo as another example of this. At the same time, they completely ignore genuine infringements on political free-speech and the abuses of power from the world's most powerful office.
CountScrofula · 41-45, M
There's an inherently authoritarian idea of free speech here.

My speech, particularly that which I can use to further my own power at the grave expense of others, is vital and must be protected at all costs.

Your speech, which challenges my power, is disrespectful lies and cannot be tolerated in any context.
RodionRomanovitch · 56-60, M
With regard to the Israel boycott portion of the question , it would appear that the courts are rightly taking a dim view of this type of nonsense ;

https://www.thedailybeast.com/these-laws-banning-boycotts-arent-really-pro-israelbut-they-are-surely-un-american?ref=wrap
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Budwick Bye jack 😘
Northwest · M
@Burnley123 [quote]I don't think Schumer is left-wing but I do think your post is massively off-topic[/quote]

I don't see the point of this post either. It's not like Schumer, or the Democrat Party, is lobbying for open borders, or no national security. Beside, the thread is about free speech, but Jack has to be Jack.

But, free speech, to some, means only when it's not exposing their points of view, or failings.

Free speech, is free speech, but no one should be forced to gout of their way, to insure someone's free (hate) speech, is provided a venue. Example is what happened at UC Berkeley. Those events are paid for by Alumni associations. While I support Milo's right to be a dick, I do not want Alumni contributions to go toward paying for his hate speech. Of course, he provoked an incident, and turned it into an attack on his right to free speech.

There are multiple dimensions to this. In an ideal world, readers/listeners/viewers would be well informed. We, however, live in a world, where Trump can lie, every single day, and his supporters will not consider any other view points.
RodionRomanovitch · 56-60, M
@Northwest 'but Jack has to be Jack.'

..... you mean this actually our good friend JJ ?
firefall · 61-69, M
well, sure, 'intellectual dark-web' equates perfectly to authoritarian bootlickers refusing to use their intelligence*. Literally, I have not seen anyone whose efforts refute that.

As for Patreon, isn't this a private corporation exercising their marketing judgement? Presumably the free hand of the market will punish them if they are wrong?**

*in some cases, assumes intelligence not necessarily evidenced.
** not sure what the sarcasm font is for SW
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@firefall I think * is particularly a good point because of Peterson's 'smart-dude' persona relies on sounding confident to an audience who have not read about the things he is talking about.

** Well yeah. Adam Smith is a leftist to these people. 😉
firefall · 61-69, M
@Burnley123 I havent (and wont) hear Peterson speak, but what he's written very much confirms that to me, he doesn't seem astute or penetrating in his analysis at all - rather, he builds on a stacked mountain of unspoken assumptions.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@firefall You are right. His schtick works because he is a great public speaker and because his ideas make sense on one level until you look into them. His fans don't look into them because they don't want to.
Bottom line (quote rapper Ice T circa 1989): “Freedom of Speech...just watch what you say”.
And alas, [b]both[/b] sides are guilty of [b]that[/b] hypocrisy.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@bijouxbroussard It can be but I mean it in a more abstract sense. Speech has consequences and has always been politically contested. Also, the free-speech defenders I mention all pick causes to defend which right-wing issues and they do not show any consistency.

[quote]if they still believe Trump/Pence is good for our country, they support the idea of a white supremacist theocracy with us heading towards whites-only immigration policy.[/quote]

I think maybe that is taking it a bit far though I have no doubt Trump and Pence agree with those things on some level.
@Burnley123 The proof is in the legislation; that which makes the news [b]and[/b] that which happens quietly, like protections from racial discrimination being removed.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@bijouxbroussard I don't doubt that. What I am saying is that most of these people don't [i]actively[/i] support these things but ignore it or [i]passively[/i] accept it.

I mean, you know more than me on this because you see these people every day. It's just when I use the analogy of Brexit, I don't think most people voted for it because they are actively racist and support a Singapore economic model. A lot of people turn a blind eye to these things or tacitly accept them. Others are just conned or are people who don't follow politics as closely as maybe they should. This isn't to exempt people from criticism.
akindheart · 61-69, F
i watched jordan peterson on Revolutions last night. the guy did not make sense. i bought his book and could not finish it. the topic of him being a rightist came up. since he is from Canada, i didn't pick up his leanings.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@akindheart I get that. He tries to link his own life, psychology, history, self help and the political world in ways that don't hang together.
akindheart · 61-69, F
@Burnley123 you said it so much better than i did. (thanks for that)
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@akindheart And thank you. I despair that so so many people take him to be a guru and hang on his every word.
Jackaloftheazuresand · 26-30, M
I got an opinion that's "edgy." That pathologist can work elsewhere or not at all
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Jackaloftheazuresand OK. So you don't think employers should fire people for their political views but you don't care that much if they are on the left?

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding.
Jackaloftheazuresand · 26-30, M
@Burnley123 I said I wasn't against them being fired for it
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Jackaloftheazuresand Fair enough, I did misread. I don't think people should be fired for political opinions though and if they are then I think it sets a totalitarian precedent.
gol979 · 41-45, M
Well said and what an opening gambit to 2019. Think you know my thoughts on Jordan Peterson. Hope you had a good festive period dude 👍
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@gol979 Thanks. Same to you.
curiosi · 61-69, F
Hey Burnley! Have you considered writing books in your spare time. You would be quite good at it.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@curiosi Thanks LOL. Maybe a blog would be the thing to do cos a lot of my posts are more like blog entries than questions.
PlumBerries · 31-35, F
[c=#7700B2]so Trump should just allow people with a wide spread audience to slander him constantly?[/c]
PlumBerries · 31-35, F
[c=#7700B2]seriously FireFall? you write a comment and block me so I can not see all of it.. ironic you say trump should ignore all hate and so on and you can not take a difference of opinion and tag me in a comment and block me so I can not reply.. hmm lol[/c]
OggggO · 36-40, M
@PlumBerries [quote]maybe the guy is just tired of turning on the tv and constantly hear people making fun of him[/quote]

If he can't take it, he really shouldn't dish it out.

[quote]or being offended over something ridiculous like him signing hats for troops[/quote]
Didn't happen.

[quote]and news media constantly lying about him[/quote]
Such as?
QuixoticSoul · 41-45, M
@PlumBerries Slander is already illegal - but SNL is not slandering him.
I am with you on all of it except for a minor quibble. The issue with the speech pathologist is unfortunate but not unique to public or private employers and in the USA the courts seem unanimous that while on the clock your employer owns your ass lock, stock and barrel.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow Should that be the case though?

With this issue, it's not about workplace behaviour (how could a speech-pathologist buy or not buy goods at work) but it's about policing political views while not a work. That really shouldn't happen.
It should not happen period but I wanted to draw attention to the fact that this was one small facet of a bigger issue. For example there have been cases of corporations requiring employees to work on political campaigns.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@PicturesOfABetterTomorrow OK. Thanks for that.
xixgun · M
Pot, meet kettle.
gol979 · 41-45, M
@xixgun I've been memed for the first but guaranteed not the last time this year.
Poignant point you make sir, well said 👍
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@xixgun For the record, it's not easy to tell who or what you are actually agreeing with.
gol979 · 41-45, M
@Burnley123 it was a genuine question......but I have got to learn to leave the facetious and arrogant comments out of my question

 
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