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Orange County Was Set to House the Homeless, and There Was a Popular Revolt

I always thought it was pretty obvious that we are going to have a growing homeless population even when i was a kid. My idea is to give big tax breaks to people who adopt homeless families. And they need to build homeless centers to actually house them and get them back into society. They could always buy empty hotels. This is what i wanted to do if i ever won the lottery. What is your great idea for helping the homeless?
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hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
I find them jobs. First they work for my company as they get clean and sober and help with their mental illnesses. Then I help them find permanent work and a place to live.
@hippyjoe1955 that is the solution.
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@LILY61 For some. For others not so much they prefer their drink or drugs and they are not about to change no matter what. If the shelter closes they go sleep under a tree.
Fernie · F
@hippyjoe1955 Are you saying that homeless people are either drug addicts, alcoholics or mentally ill? Now it's the "working poor" that dominate. Greedy landlords can and do charge obscene amounts of rent just because they can.
Graylight · 51-55, F
@hippyjoe1955 1. The majority of homeless are not addicted or mentally ill.

2. How do you expect someone to get and maintain a job with no shelter, security, shower, communication or resources?
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@Graylight The majority are addicted and or mentally ill. They are not victims as most media would have you believe. I have worked with them for 20 years and the vast majority say that they made the choices that led to them being on the street.
Graylight · 51-55, F
@hippyjoe1955 According to the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, 20 to 25% of the homeless population in the United States suffers from some form of severe mental illness. According to the same coalition, roughly 38% of homeless are dependent on drugs and alcohol.

That you work in this industry unsettles me, given so many of your posts.
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@Graylight If you believe the government then you deserve all the abuse you get from them. They tell you what they want you to hear and not the cold hard truth from the guys in the trenches. It is called feathering their nest. If you think the homeless are mere victims of a harsh and cruel system then you will agree to pouring more money into government programs which will require more people to run and more people to manage those running the programs which means pay raises and prestige. If you believe what I say then you are much less likely to support government programs which do nothing but enable the addict to maintain his/her addiction.
Graylight · 51-55, F
@hippyjoe1955 Believe me, this is backed up with personal experience. These people come to me every day.

Tell you what. Lose your job, default on your loans, default on your mortgage. Oh, you're working, and working hard. It's just all the debt and while smaller companies can't pay a lot, the larger ones simply won't. Now you have no health care. Then an unexpected crisis. Then a bit of bad luck. Now you have nowhere to go. How is that not victimization?

And if you truly believe everyone on the street is addicted or mentally ill, then you should know plenty about the concept of victimization of vulnerable groups. Government programs - including VA and prison programs - absolutely can make a difference and do every day.

You may seriously want to look into the possibility of burnout. Because with this thinking, you aren't in a position to help anyone.
cherokeepatti · 61-69, F
@LILY61 I believe there are some who don't want to work a job, not speaking about all but have heard some bragging on how good a "ride" they've had here since moving here. They spend every fair weather day parked on their butts near grocery store entries and people walk by and ask them if they are OK and if they need anything. The numbers are increasing as there are many social service agencies & churches that will help them with donations and meals, and some are aggressive in panhandling.
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@Graylight Yes we are all plagued with homeless people everyday and they all have their story which is absolutely believable - until you actually spend some time with them and begin to see the little inconsistencies in their stories which soon become gaping lies which you soon enough realize that they have been telling you this nonsense so you won't try to fix anything for them. Oh they would like a home where they can drink and get stoned and never worry about freezing to death if it is free. Just don't ask them to pay for it since all their money is going to booze and drugs and fast food. As many of them have told me over the years "You would be amazed at how expensive it is to live on the street.
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@cherokeepatti It is truly amazing how much a person can make by sitting on the street corner with a bucket beside them I was invited by one of the guys I was trying to help. We sat on the corner with an old ice cream bucket between us. In under an hour we had 50 bucks given to us. We didn't ask or have any sign. We simply sat in the warm sun with a bucket.
Graylight · 51-55, F
@hippyjoe1955 And everyone on welfare drives a Cadillac. And all women have more kids for the extra cash.

You bought into the stereotypes somewhere along the way, my friend. You are right - there's a fair number of people willing to scam whatever they can from anywhere they can, but the prove the exception, not the rule.

You might want to consider the systemic lack of trust many of these marginalized people have for "helpers." Too many get roused without reason they're treated like garbage, they've been locked up or run off or otherwise hassled. They've been preached to, cajoled, yelled at. A stray dog slowly loses its affinity for humans. We run on instinct, too.

A**hole, lazy, addicted or mentally ill...everyone deserves human compassion and fair treatment. The quality of mercy is not strained; we give what we can hoping it can be used, not for the dividends it'll generate.

Don't judge another person. Give him what he needs and then let him judge himself.
cherokeepatti · 61-69, F
@hippyjoe1955 Last time I went to the grocery store I noticed that they were sitting further away from the entrance, I imagine there were complaints and the manager asked them to move. When I walking to get in my car they started talking louder and when I was about to close the door they toned it down....I guess they know how to get attention but I'm not falling for it.
Fernie · F
@Graylight Brilliant !
Fernie · F
@cherokeepatti "they" who?
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@Graylight Please stop it. You are clearly unaware of the homeless situation and have the romantic idea that you somehow have a solution. There is no solution. People are people and they do as they please. The ones I help need to help themselves first or my efforts are all in vain. I was the executor to one homeless man's estate. He had 1/2 a million dollars in the bank which went to his estranged daughter upon his death. He preferred to live on the street than pay for housing. It was his choice. He didn't have any mental or addiction issues. He drank quite responsibly so he always had a mat at the shelter. The shelter he liked didn't allow drunks. There is a shelter for drunks across the street but he didn't like that one.
Fernie · F
@hippyjoe1955 sorry joe...I worked for 32 years with addicts, homeless, abused women...all of it. You have a very warped perception of...just about everything. You judge the homeless viciously, you speak about them as if they were clones...you really have no clue. Have you been homeless?
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@Fernie Sure you have. lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol GASP!!!!!!
@hippyjoe1955 According to your model...

... explain why my friends who work with the homeless providing healthcare see much of their shelter census comprised of people with complex medical conditions who have been dumped by local hospitals.

They routinely receive people with PIC-lines, surgical drains, open amputation wounds. As well as people who are terminally ill typically with cancer or congestive heart failure as they are not yet hospice candidates.
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@CopperCicada Well explain to me how my homeless friend had his flesh and bone infection treated with extensive hospitalization and surgery all paid for by government while my cousin a hard working accountant Mom and wife died from cancer because the same government that pays for all medical care here in Canada ran out of funds for cancer treatment but not for the bone infection my homeless guy had.
Graylight · 51-55, F
@hippyjoe1955 You know what, Joe? Sometimes people walk different paths in life, and God forbid someone who needs help gets help. Why would someone who doesn't even need that help be resentful of it? You've asked twice if I have any concept of the homeless population. Again, these are clients, recovery members, hard workers, sometimes children and women. This isn't romantic, this is real life.

I worry that you don't work anywhere near a field that helps those less fortunate. I fear even more that you do and this is how you think of them.
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@Graylight Yeah I don't believe a word you say anymore. You have a romanticized view on homelessness and so be it. Giving homes to the homeless will no more eliminate homelessness than giving money to to the poor will eliminate poverty.
@hippyjoe1955 Well that speaks to differences in medicine in our two countries I suppose.

That doesn't change the point of my comment. You say:

[quote]the vast majority say that they made the choices that led to them being on the street[/quote]

So in other words the majority of homeless are homeless because of their own doing.

Given that a large fraction of homeless in my community are people who have lost everything including their homes and families due to a medical crisis and are medical system "dumps" at the shelter...

... I'm curious what their fault is?
hippyjoe1955 · 61-69, M
@CopperCicada Actually it does. Move along you are a clueless as ever.
Graylight · 51-55, F
@hippyjoe1955 That's actually being disproven as we speak. Pilot programs in the US in which the homeless are given shelter first then other resources they need are doing exceptionally well in producing sober, working, responsible citizens.

And what, exactly, is so romantic about painting a realistic View of the homeless issue?