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Is this the point at which reality bites for Brexit?

Its the Northern Ireland Question which has caused the latest huge controversy because of it just cannot be reconciled within the contradictions of what Brexit is supposed to be.

Basically, a 'hard-Brexit' (which is our Government's preferred option) means leaving the Single Market and the Customs Union. This means hard borders, check-points and possibly tariffs between Britain and the EU.

This border has to go somewhere and the Government of the Republic of Ireland (which is still in the EU) do not want it to exist between themselves and Northern Ireland because a lot of trade takes place between the two so they got the EU to pressurise Thereasa May into saying that Northern Ireland (which is part of the UK) will have a frictionless border with the south. This means a border between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK.

Unfortunately for May and the Conservatives, their Government is propped up by a small hard-line Northern Ireland Party called the DUP, whose reason for existence is to fight to maintain the existing British status quo. They are basically the opposite of Sein Fein and there is no earthly way that they will accept any border between Northern Ireland and the UK. It would be like the UK saying that Northern Ireland is more Irish than British, so predictably enough they torpedoed a deal which would have these terms.

So Theresa May suffered two defeats on the same day to opposite sides. First, she surrendered to Ireland and the EU on the border issue. Then she surrendered to the DUP on her first surrender. FYI her recent election ran on the campaign slogan 'strong and stable'. Pressure is being put in the DUP and in IMO they are awful but then they are what they are and any strategy must account for that. May's strategy has accounted for nothing of anything.

An obvious answer to the problem would be to not have Brexit. That won't happen because people voted in the referendum so the s**t has to go down somehow. Another answer to the problem would be to have the whole of the UK stay in the Single Market and the Customs Union but the right of the Conservative Party cannot have that because they believe that this would be a sell-out.

On another note, Brexit is a huge threat to The Good Friday Agreement and the Northern Ireland Peace process.

If this all seems messy, complicated and ridiculous...well... it is. And this is just ONE issue with contradictions out of several.

Brexit was always an undeliverable fantasy. I have predicted that the Government could well fall in the coming months over this.
firefall · 61-69, M
I'd be interested what odds I could get on the government falling in the next 12 months, because I agree, that seems the most likely.

Of course, there's another answer to the NI problem - pull Great Britain (but not the UK) out of the EU.... hahahahaha right
Picklebobble2 · 56-60, M
@Burnley123 ....You're starting to sound like a 'Remoaner'! lol😄
I hear what you're saying but i still think these fears are unfounded.

Trade organizations are a mess ! No matter WHO you have to deal with !
And the seeds of our downfall occurred long before the creation of a single currency within the E:U.
They happened the second the Thatcher governments sold off our power companies ! Our oilfields ! Our manufacturing ! Our water companies etc etc.
When your country becomes reliant on that which is NOW provided by another.......it's a slippery slope !

But i do think this is the ideal opportunity for a British government to make a stand and put it's people first without having to worry whether we meet somebody else's standards.
Do deals with who WE want to work with rather than having to with a questionable provider just because we happen to be in the same trade bloc.
It finally makes a government. A British government. Responsible for it's own things again.
And that can only be a good thing.
firefall · 61-69, M
[quote] A British government. Responsible for it's own things again.
And that can only be a good thing.[/quote] That strikes me as completely unsubstantiated optimism. Unalloyed British government has been a disaster since about 1905.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Picklebobble2 [quote]They happened the second the Thatcher governments sold off our power companies ! Our oilfields ! Our manufacturing ! Our water companies etc etc.[/quote]

This Corbynista ain't gonna argue with you about that one. 😜

I have lots of problems with the EU. In fact in days gone by I would have been considered a Eurosceptic. I also know that the sovereignty of old is hard to achieve in a globalised world. I am all for international socialism but Brexit ain't about to deliver that.

If have talked a load about this already so simpley put' "EU = bad. Brexit = worse". LOL
The British should simply annex Ireland and make it part of the U.K. with the help of Northern Ireland....oh wait!
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Notmesam We need to deal with those treasonous colonists and make Britain great again. 😜
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firefall · 61-69, M
@LvChris The TRULY Conservative position: "Lets give ourselves back to George III"
Picklebobble2 · 56-60, M
Well, maybe we need this to finally unify Ireland.
Massively unpopular with a spectacularly small number of folk. As is the way with all things Irish politics !
Just finally say to folk in Northern Ireland......If you think of yourselves as British, here's the dividing line North and South.
And redraw the border !
Then put a hard border across it since nobody could argue !
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Picklebobble2 We are treading a fine line too but we have our own currency so have more mechanisms to get out of it. We could need those mechanisms in the next couple of years.
firefall · 61-69, M
@Picklebobble2 Italy. Spain. Portugal. Ireland. At the least
Picklebobble2 · 56-60, M
@firefall See i think if the UK can come up with a plan and make it work, that might well get others thinking along similar lines and opt to do the same.
A nations currency defines how well it's doing when compared with it's neighbours. If everybody has the same currency.....they can't all be experiencing the same successes/failures without some serious 'book fiddling'!
Northwest · M
I don't think Theresa May's government is going to survive this. Those who proposed Brexit, and those who voted for it, did not take all the peripheral cases into consideration. The devil is in the details, and the details do not seem to be workable (at least to me), without leaving multiple parties unhappy. Do you really think the Good Friday agreement is in danger of collapsing over the ramifications?
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@Northwest Yes. As I said in the post, the border issue really matters to people. If the border goes up between the north and the republic it will antagonise republicans. If it's in the Irish sea, unionists will hate it. The northern Ireland power sharing regional government is already dysfunctional and not meeting due to this and other factors. Basically hard Brexit is incompatible with Good Friday.
RemovedUsername8862 · 26-30, M
...Sounds like a right mess indeed. I don't really see what the British get out of holding onto Northern Ireland, aside from a headache.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@RemovedUsername8862 A lot of English Brexit voters don't care about Northern Ireland but a lot of pro-Brexit Tory MPs are uber-nationalist and are happy to back the DUP.

The Good Friday Agreement is/was a rare historic success story of sharing power and sovereignty. Now it is in grave peril.
SW-User
If N. Ireland is still technically under British sovereignty what is the issue? Or, do I have that wrong.
Burnley123 · 41-45, M
@SW-User They are under British sovereignty but its complicated. Don't worry about not understanding because our own Government don't have a clue either. 😜
SW-User
@Burnley123 I once had the flu and for some reason watched hours of documentaries on The Troubles and the Irish Revolution. Just when I thought I figured it out...
If they held another referendum do you think the result will be different?
@LvChris they made so many inflammatory statements, one of my friends ranted on about the NHS being bled dry by immigrants and wouldn't listen to any of the responses I gave her because she wanted to blame immigrants. They fuelled what resentment people were already feeling
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@LvChris I agree totally.

 
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