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Not a question. I am interested in your thoughts and feelings about what a friend of mine told me to do last week.

He was visiting here the day before Thanksgiving, and had..."an episode" of some kind. He passed out after I got him onto my office chair, I rolled him (on the chair) over to the bed, and I had to lift him onto the bed. I hurt my back pretty badly. He lost control of himself, and had no memory at all of my moving him.

I thought about calling 911, but I didn't because I knew my friend would be really angry.

He assured me later that he would have been very angry if I had called 911, and that he never would have forgiven me. He said if it ever happens again, he is a DNR but he wears no bracelet advising EMTs that he is a DNR.

I have begun to worry about my legal liability. Another friend told me that it may have been a TIA or small stroke.

If my friend had died, I believe I might have been legally liable for not dialing 911 but I don't know for sure. And I am not authorized to convey any sort of DNR information to the EMTs if such a thing should happen again.

I am interested in hearing your thoughts.
SW-User
This guy sounds like a serious burden. He needs to get a grip and realize you simply care for him. I'd tell him to offer proof of a DNR or he can have his pass out episodes somewhere else. I don't want to risk going to prison for allowing this to happen to him just to find out he didn't even have a DNR in the first place.
4meAndyou · F
@SW-User I am starting to think of buying him a medical alert DNR bracelet for Christmas.
pennynoodles · 56-60, F
You may remember me telling you about my dad who the ambulance crew tried to resuscitate, 45 minutes after he died. Although he was in organ failure, because neither him or my mum had signed a DNR, they were legally bound to try and resuscitate him. Ask your friend where he has it written that he is a DNR. It is important that you know, if these are his wishes and feel free to use my scenario if you like to explain how important it is. Thank goodness my dad did not come back to life after 45 minutes....can you imagine the brain damage?
At one point the police were going to be called in as my mum hadn't called the ambulance for about twenty minutes after his death. I don't know if the law is the same over there but you do need to talk this through with him.
4meAndyou · F
@pennynoodles I had thought of the floor a day or so ago. He would then have been right in a good spot immediately, I wouldn't have hurt myself trying to move him, and he wouldn't have "gotten" my brand new office chair. He would have been uncomfortable, and when he woke up he would have had a chore getting himself up. All food for thought.
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
@pennynoodles I hate to be the neigh Sayer, but, out of hospital CPR without a defibrillator is almost always unsuccessful. Even if there overturn of spontaneous circulation, a very small percentage survives to be discharged home from a hospital and then looking at 6 month survival, the prognosis is dismal.
pennynoodles · 56-60, F
I am aware of this. It is particularly unsuccessful when they have been dead for 45 minutes lol @samueltyler2
Salix75 · 46-50, F
If it were me, I'd call 911. I'd rather risk losing a friendship than risk someone losing their life or further injury.

if he's that adamant about what should/should not be done, then he should get smart about it and wear a bracelet so folks around him know what's happening (epileptic seizure? narcolepsy? etc) and so EMT know his situation.
4meAndyou · F
@Salix75 We don't know what happened to him for sure. He hasn't been to a doctor. I am definitely calling 911 if it happens again, and I will get him a medical alert bracelet for Christmas (and then I will have to listen to him yell at me about it). He is not well known for being smart and it is unlikely that he will "get smart". He is (sometimes) a mechanical genius, but he doesn't read very well and doesn't understand what he reads.
Next time call 911. The DNR is between your friend and the hospital. If they are that adamant about it they should wear a bracelet or have it noted on file at the medical facility.
4meAndyou · F
@Pinkstarburst I saw a television show recently where the EMTs did not know their rescue was DNR because his wallet was missing, and the show implied that the EMTs could have been in legal trouble.
@4meAndyou If there is nothing to let them know I don't see how that can happen. People are not mind readers.
SweetMae · 70-79, F
I would have called 911. He wasn't wearing any proof of the DNR.
4meAndyou · F
@SweetMae I did. My back hurts so much I can't lean over the sink to do dishes.
SweetMae · 70-79, F
@4meAndyou Have you seen a doctor?
4meAndyou · F
@SweetMae Not for myself. BUT I have a new insurance plan that goes into effect January 1st, AND my new PCP is a DOM!
Carla · 61-69, F
Next time call 911. Choices are... a dead friend or a living ex friend.
Carla · 61-69, F
@4meAndyou im sorry you had to see and deal with that. You should never allow him to put you in that position again.
laotzu92 · 70-79, M
@Carla Carla is absolutely right. If he does not take steps to straighten out this issue, you should make him an ex-friend immediately.
4meAndyou · F
@laotzu92 I spoke to him about it last night. He actually waved his hand at me as though it was of no importance.
samueltyler2 · 80-89, M
This is a very complex question. You never have a LEGAL requirement to call 911 or not. There are all sorts of problems with this question. If you are a drug abuser and a fellowvdrug abuser collapses, and you call 911, in some jurisdiction, if policebrespobd and find you "in possession" you could be arrested.

DNR is also only designed to prevent resuscitation, not all treatment.

Also no one has ever successfully sued someone for savingn their life.
4meAndyou · F
@samueltyler2 Well, we don't have to worry about the drug stuff. Neither he nor I do drugs. I am just worried about not calling 911 and then being held legally responsible somehow. I would put up with some yelling from my friend if it kept me out of jail.

I did find this blog:

https://blogs.findlaw.com/injured/2014/09/can-you-sue-someone-for-not-calling-911.html
Montanaman · M
Tough situation, but if it were me, I'd always dial 911, and let the burden roll on them.
4meAndyou · F
@Montanaman I think you are correct. I hate to be yelled at, but I think I would hate jail a lot worse.
SW-User
I mean, if you knew he was there and was in danger, you could be held responsible depending on where you're from. EMTs don't care for most jewellery or anything of the sort unless it's standardised, just like they don't care for tattoos that say "DNR". They need paperwork. If they don't have that paperwork, they're going to do whatever they can to keep that person alive.
Zaphod42 · 46-50, M
I would say from a legal stand point he either needs to start wearing a DNR bracelet/necklace or you need to stop letting him come over. You could easily be charged with negligent manslaughter if he died with no clear indication of flat refusal of medical services.
4meAndyou · F
@Zaphod42 My thoughts (fears) exactly. He is coming over today to use my computer and I will tell him.
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4meAndyou · F
@Razorback Good call. I spoke to him two days ago, and told him that's what I was going to do. He was angry, of course, and first tried to wave me off as though I was not important, but I told him that I had to think of myself and the consequences to me if he died.
uncalled4 · 56-60, M
What kind of asshole would put you in a position like that??
uncalled4 · 56-60, M
@4meAndyou Puzzling. I take it on faith that he has other redeeming qualities.
4meAndyou · F
@uncalled4 He has a good heart, and he helps me with all the fix it jobs and assemblies I don't know how to do. He brings me food all the time, even when I don't need it, and he loves my cat (unrequited).
uncalled4 · 56-60, M
@4meAndyou it's probably best that you avoid legal trouble, though. As a musician who works in broadcasting, I have a bumper crop of dysfunction, so although he may be essentially a positive presence, there's no reason to leave you holding the bag.
CrazyMusicLover · 31-35
I've never heard about DNR until now. Interesting. What are the reasons for this legal order?

I'd call 911.

 
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